[Ads-l] Fw: [ADS-L] Enslavement of Native Americans [was: wench]

[Z Rice]

1) Newsflash: it's NOT possible to "own" a human being. They were
"enslavers", not "owners". Using the term "owner" implies that this was a
legitimate system (which you seem to believe) as opposed to a
trans-continental human trafficking network. And the latter is exactly what
it was.

2) I figured you'd write back with commentary about 'some being free' -
which of course you actually did. Again, I am speaking on those who you
referred to as "servants".  Stop revising history and referring to them as
such. They were ENSLAVED. I don't give a damn if they preferred to use some
dignified term to refer to their barbaric practice of enslavement or not.
They also (pretended to) believe that Black people were sub-human, felt no
pain, and proceeded to declare them 3/5 of a human being (the latter being
a political move). However, that should not prompt you to pass off such
language on this mailing list, simply because they did as well. You are not
excused.

3) Last, #2 also applies to your earlier statement that implied that Black
people made "good slaves". Again, I don't give a DAMN if that's what white
people believe(d). That should not prompt you to pass off the same rhetoric
as fact on this mailing list.


Shame on ALL OF the Black people who subscribe to this mailing list and
read the implicitly racist madness (which floats around on a weekly basis
on this mailing list) and accept it silently.

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 3:17 AM, Joel Berson <berson at att.net> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Re: Fw: [ADS-L] Enslavement of Native Americans [was: wench]
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dear Z. Rice,
>
>
> I will forgive you for your screed.=C2=A0 But in New England, the area I
> wa=
> s speaking of, the word "servant" broadlymeant =E2=80=9Canyone who worked
> f=
> or another in whatever capacity=E2=80=9D, whether indentured for a certain
> =
> number of years or a slave for life.=C2=A0 The treatment of slaves was
> enjo=
> ined by the Massachusetts "Body of Liberties"s Liberty 91, based on the
> Heb=
> rew Bible: "And these shallhave all the liberties and Christian usages
> whic=
> h the law of Godestablished in Israel concerning such persons doth morally
> =
> require."=C2=A0 (Of course, many owners and masters treated their servants
> =
> or slaves cruelly; but in Massachusetts even slaves were able to sue
> owners=
>  for mistreatment, and such suits were often successful.)
>
>
> And some Blacks and Native Americans were free, having arrived in
> Massachus=
> etts as free, or having been freed by or bought their freedom from their
> ow=
> ners, or having been freed by a court after successful suit for
> mistreatmen=
> t.
>
> Yes, it was believed in colonial Massachusetts that Native Americans did
> no=
> t make as good "servants" as Africans.=C2=A0 It was also said, and
> believed=
> , that (Catholic) Irish did not make as good servants (and these, of
> course=
> , were not slaves) as Protestant Scots-Irish.=C2=A0 Were these allegations
> =
> true?=C2=A0 Probably.=C2=A0 "Good" is not a term of my creation; it is the
> =
> adjective that was used in the 18th century.
> =20
> I certainly agree with your last paragraph, that no-one wants to be a
> slave=
> .=C2=A0 A report by the (white) Commons House of Assemblyof South Carolina
> =
> on the 1739 Stono rebellion remarked tellingly that =E2=80=9Cone [side]
> fou=
> ght for Liberty and Life".=C2=A0 As Herbert Aptheker wrote,
> =E2=80=9Cpeople=
>  who are beaten, branded,sold, degraded, denied a thousand and one
> privileg=
> es they see enjoyed by otherswill be discontented, will be unhappy, and
> wil=
> l, or, at least, think ofbettering their lot.=E2=80=9D
>
> I must conclude by saying that what you wrote has more than a dash of
> prese=
> ntism.
>
> Joel
>       From: Z Rice <zrice3714 at GMAIL.COM>
>  To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=20
>  Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 7:07 PM
>  Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Fw: [ADS-L] Enslavement of Native Americans [was:
> wen=
> ch]
>   =20
> "The Blacks" and Amerindians were enslaved in the United States. Our
> ancestors were not simply "servants". They were enslaved. Using the term
> 'servant' smacks of the revisionist use of "workers" and "immigrants" to
> refer to the same African population. Call it what it was.
>
> You also wrote: "It was generally agreed that Native Americans did not make
> good servants (a term which included what today we would call slaves) ...
> they didn't like service, resisted doing it, and would go missing."
>
> This comment that you made implies that Amerindians supposedly "did not
> make good 'servants' " (servants ??), and others did. Hopefully, I am
> mistaken and this is not what you meant. Regardless, you should also know
> that the rate of death for enslaved Amerindians was much higher than that
> of Africans enslaved in the US.
>
> Still, no one makes a "good" so-called "slave" (the usage of this term here
> is very telling). No one wants to be held captive, tortured, raped,
> molested, disfigured, and worked to death. No one wants their children
> snatched from them, raped, whipped, enslaved, and/or tortured to death. No
> one wants their family ripped apart. No one wants to be forced to do some
> other population's work (and for no pay no less). No one wants to suffer a
> starvation diet. A human being is prone to resist such barbaric policies
> and practices, as the history of those enslaved African ancestors has
> already demonstrated.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 9:34 PM, Joel Berson <berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.
> =
> EDU>
> > Poster:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Fw: [ADS-L] Enslavement of Native Americans
> =
> [was: wench]
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> >
> > Re-sent under a better Subject heading.
> >
> > Which gives me the opportunity to add ... It was generally agreed that
> > Nati=3D
> > ve Americans did not make good servants (a term which included what today
> > w=3D
> > e would call slaves) ... they didn't like service, resisted doing it, and
> > w=3D
> > ould go missing.
> >
> > Joel
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =3D20
> > ----- Forwarded Message -----
> >=C2=A0 From: Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET>
> >=C2=A0 To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=3D20
> >=C2=A0 Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 3:25 PM
> >=C2=A0 Subject: Re: [ADS-L] wench
> >=C2=A0 =3D20
> > This is a partial answer, for New England.=3DC2=3DA0 After various of
> the=
>  wars
> > =3D
> > between the English settlers of New England and the Native Americans,
> > captu=3D
> > red Native Americans were sold for transportation to the Southern
> colonie=
> s
> > =3D
> > or to the West Indies, where they surely would become slaves.=3DC2=3DA0
> O=
> thers
> > =3D
> > were kept as slaves in New England.=3DC2=3DA0 This was permitted by one
> o=
> f the
> > =3D
> > two exceptions in the 1641 Massachusetts "Body of Liberties" to the
> > prohibi=3D
> > tion of slavery ("bond slaves"), which allowed enslavement of persons
> > "take=3D
> > n in just wars".
> > (The other exception in Liberty 91 essentially undid the prohibition --
> > whi=3D
> > le Massachusettsians could not enslave others, they could buy slaves sold
> > t=3D
> > o them.=3DC2=3DA0 And there were New England shippers in the slave trade
> =
> --
> > but=3D
> >=C2=A0 they would fit under the exemption if they had not actually
> enslave=
> d
> > their=3D
> >=C2=A0 cargoes but rather had bought them in Africa and sold them in the
> N=
> ew
> > Worl=3D
> > d.)
> >
> >
> > Liberty 91 is silent about "race", so it would seem to allow the presence
> > o=3D
> > f Native American slaves to the same extent as African slaves.
> >
> > For Joanne Pope Melish's evaluation of enslavement of Native Americans
> > (and=3D
> >=C2=A0 others), see her _Disowning Slavery: Gradual Emancipation and
> "Race=
> " in
> > Ne=3D
> > w England, 1780=3DE2=3D80=3D931860_, Google Books (preview), search for
> "=
> Indian"
> > =3D
> > (sort by Pages and look at the first 3 or 4 hits) and for "Body of
> > Libertie=3D
> > s".=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
> >
> > I do not have definite knowledge for the Middle Atlantic and Southern
> > colon=3D
> > ies, but I would bet there were Native American slaves there.=3DC2=3DA0
> G=
> eorge
> > =3D
> > cites an example from New York, and there probably were similar in the
> > Virg=3D
> > inia (Williamsburg) and South Carolina (Charleston) newspapers.
> >
> >
> > Joel
> >
> >
> > =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 From: James A. Landau <JJJRLandau at NETSCA
> =
> PE.COM>
> >=C2=A0 To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=3D20
> >=C2=A0 Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 2:09 PM
> >=C2=A0 Subject: Re: [ADS-L] wench
> > =3DC2=3DA0=3D20
> > Something that appears to have overlooked in this thread:=3DC2=3DA0 in
> th=
> e
> > 17th=3D
> >=C2=A0 century both Africans and Native Americans were used as household
> > servants=3D
> > .=3DC2=3DA0 The blacks were usually slaves (slavery was practiced in all
> =
> 13
> > Col=3D
> > onies until circa 1780).=3DC2=3DA0 I do not know if Native Americans
> coul=
> d
> > also=3D
> >=C2=A0 be slaves (can anyone enlighten me?)=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
> >
> > If in the 17th and 18th centuries in the Colonies the term "wench"
> > generall=3D
> > y meant "slave woman", it would still frequently be necessary to specify
> > if=3D
> >=C2=A0 a particular wench were African, Native American, or
> mixed-race.=3D=
> C2=3DA0=3D20
> >
> > Off-topic: "wench", long archaic, is enjoying a micro-revival in George
> R=
> .
> > =3D
> > R. Martin's A Song Of Ice And Fire series, set in a universe quite
> simila=
> r
> > =3D
> > to our Middle Ages, in which "Wench" is Jaime Lannister's disparaging
> ter=
> m
> > =3D
> > of address to Brienne of Tarth.
> >
> > - Jim Landau
> >
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________
> > Netscape.=3DC2=3DA0 Just the Net You Need.
> >
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