[Ads-l] Enslavement of Native Americans [was: wench

[Laurence Horn]

> On Apr 6, 2016, at 7:13 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Except that the Jews that were enslaved by the Nazis are called slaves (in
> slavery, slave labor), generally, by historians.
> 
> Not the first time, either. The Egyptians enslaved them, too.

And those Haggadahs need updated--"We were slaves to Pharaoh in Egypt" > "We were enslaved in Egypt"?  

LH

> On Apr 6, 2016 6:25 PM, "Benjamin Barrett" <mail.barretts at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Okay, so the Jews who were enslaved in World War II aren’t generally
>> referred to as “slaves.” Interesting point. But that doesn’t answer the
>> request in my e-mail.
>> 
>> Benjamin Barrett
>> Formerly of Seattle, WA
>> 
>>> On 6 Apr 2016, at 11:29, Z Rice <zrice3714 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mr. Barrett, thank you for your reply. I prefer to avoid these
>> exchanges; I
>>> already know that they're useless. However, I DO recognize the perversity
>>> and psychological violence inflicted on the descendants of that enslaved
>>> population when they are exposed to that sort of violent, perverse
>>> rhetoric. Those inflicting that perverse, psychological violence do not
>>> have the luxury of telling those on the receiving end of that violent
>>> rhetoric how to react to it.
>>> 
>>> As I stated earlier, Jews are not routinely ("ROUTINELY", I said this the
>>> first time) referred to in discussions on history as "slaves". I am not
>>> interested in whether or not someone finds an example in which they were
>>> referred to as such. It does NOT negate my earlier statement. When we
>> speak
>>> of Germany, it is not often that we refer to Jews as being "owned" or as
>>> "slaves". They remain "Jewish", are overwhelmingly referred to as "Jews"
>> in
>>> our history books, etc, and this implicitly acknowledges their humanity.
>>> And it darn sure isn't often that we hear Germans or Nazis (or whatever)
>>> referred to as their "owners" or "masters".
>>> 
>>> The exact opposite occurs when that enslaved population is Black -
>>> especially the Black population enslaved in the US.
>>> 
>>> Mr. Berson, in regard to your comment, you can read my first paragraph
>>> addressing Mr. Barrett on what my motive is for not wanting to reduce
>>> myself to going back and forth on this. Trust that you have absolutely no
>>> insight on my reasoning.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 7:18 PM, Benjamin Barrett <
>> mail.barretts at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster:       Benjamin Barrett <mail.barretts at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject:      Re: Enslavement of Native Americans [was: wench
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Z,
>>>> 
>>>> These are certainly interesting points in terms of use of language. Can
>> =
>>>> you, in a straight-forward manner and without attacking people, lay out
>> =
>>>> how you think the words slave, servant and enslaved should be used?=20
>>>> 
>>>> And can you describe how you think people should refer to the term
>> slave =
>>>> when that is the term used in the lect they are discussing? I think =
>>>> it=E2=80=99s pretty standard to use the term in the lect under =
>>>> discussion, but perhaps there is another way of handling it.
>>>> 
>>>> Benjamin Barrett
>>>> Formerly of Seattle, WA
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1 Apr 2016, at 09:43, Z Rice <zrice3714 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>> =20
>>>>> As I said earlier, they were ENSLAVED. They were not "slaves", and =
>>>> they
>>>>> damn sure weren't servants. They were Africans/human beings who were
>>>>> ENSLAVED. Again, call it what it was.
>> 
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>> 
> 
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