[Ads-l] Enslavement of Native Americans [was: wench

Thu Apr 7 01:59:18 UTC 2016

And, undoubtedly, the ancient Hebrews also apparently sanctioned their enslavement, as they said (and we continue to say at every Seder) Hebrew ('avadim hayyinu'), which is correctly translated as a noun+copula.I.pl.past construction.

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________________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:44 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Enslavement of Native Americans [was: wench

---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Enslavement of Native Americans [was: wench
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> On Apr 6, 2016, at 7:13 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Except that the Jews that were enslaved by the Nazis are called slaves =
(in
> slavery, slave labor), generally, by historians.
>=20
> Not the first time, either. The Egyptians enslaved them, too.

And those Haggadahs need updated--"We were slaves to Pharaoh in Egypt" > =
"We were enslaved in Egypt"? =20

LH

> On Apr 6, 2016 6:25 PM, "Benjamin Barrett" <mail.barretts at gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>> Okay, so the Jews who were enslaved in World War II aren=E2=80=99t =
generally
>> referred to as =E2=80=9Cslaves.=E2=80=9D Interesting point. But that =
doesn=E2=80=99t answer the
>> request in my e-mail.
>>=20
>> Benjamin Barrett
>> Formerly of Seattle, WA
>>=20
>>> On 6 Apr 2016, at 11:29, Z Rice <zrice3714 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Mr. Barrett, thank you for your reply. I prefer to avoid these
>> exchanges; I
>>> already know that they're useless. However, I DO recognize the =
perversity
>>> and psychological violence inflicted on the descendants of that =
enslaved
>>> population when they are exposed to that sort of violent, perverse
>>> rhetoric. Those inflicting that perverse, psychological violence do =
not
>>> have the luxury of telling those on the receiving end of that =
violent
>>> rhetoric how to react to it.
>>>=20
>>> As I stated earlier, Jews are not routinely ("ROUTINELY", I said =
this the
>>> first time) referred to in discussions on history as "slaves". I am =
not
>>> interested in whether or not someone finds an example in which they =
were
>>> referred to as such. It does NOT negate my earlier statement. When =
we
>> speak
>>> of Germany, it is not often that we refer to Jews as being "owned" =
or as
>>> "slaves". They remain "Jewish", are overwhelmingly referred to as =
"Jews"
>> in
>>> our history books, etc, and this implicitly acknowledges their =
humanity.
>>> And it darn sure isn't often that we hear Germans or Nazis (or =
whatever)
>>> referred to as their "owners" or "masters".
>>>=20
>>> The exact opposite occurs when that enslaved population is Black -
>>> especially the Black population enslaved in the US.
>>>=20
>>> Mr. Berson, in regard to your comment, you can read my first =
paragraph
>>> addressing Mr. Barrett on what my motive is for not wanting to =
reduce
>>> myself to going back and forth on this. Trust that you have =
absolutely no
>>> insight on my reasoning.
>>>=20
>>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 7:18 PM, Benjamin Barrett <
>> mail.barretts at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster:       Benjamin Barrett <mail.barretts at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject:      Re: Enslavement of Native Americans [was: wench
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>> =
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
>>>>=20
>>>> Z,
>>>>=20
>>>> These are certainly interesting points in terms of use of language. =
Can
>> =3D
>>>> you, in a straight-forward manner and without attacking people, lay =
out
>> =3D
>>>> how you think the words slave, servant and enslaved should be =
used?=3D20
>>>>=20
>>>> And can you describe how you think people should refer to the term
>> slave =3D
>>>> when that is the term used in the lect they are discussing? I think =
=3D
>>>> it=3DE2=3D80=3D99s pretty standard to use the term in the lect =
under =3D
>>>> discussion, but perhaps there is another way of handling it.
>>>>=20
>>>> Benjamin Barrett
>>>> Formerly of Seattle, WA
>>>>=20
>>>>> On 1 Apr 2016, at 09:43, Z Rice <zrice3714 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>> =3D20
>>>>> As I said earlier, they were ENSLAVED. They were not "slaves", and =
=3D
>>>> they
>>>>> damn sure weren't servants. They were Africans/human beings who =
were
>>>>> ENSLAVED. Again, call it what it was.
>>=20
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>=20
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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