[Ads-l] from the Times again

[Laurence Horn]

Actually, the piece this letter, like the others at the link I included, was responding to--
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/magazine/whos-they.html
--was not about the now widely (but not universally) employed use of "they", "their", etc. with indefinite antecedents as in the contexts you cite, but with the newly promoted use of "they" as a preferred pronoun for trans and other non-binary-identified people (including one of my current students, about whom I received a message from a college dean advising me that they preferred to be referenced as "they").  It was this "they" that we (ADS) voted WOTY last January.  But in this context, "they" really does refer to a specific singular individual, and is not a term of address (like "you" or "y'all").  As you point out, "y'all" works in indefinite contexts ("If you/y'all really like") but it doesn't work as a substitute for "they/their":

"My non-binary-identified student told me they need an extension on their paper" ≠ 
"My non-binary-identified student told me y'all need an extension on y'all's paper"

LH   

> On Apr 17, 2016, at 8:50 AM, George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU> wrote:
> 
> Whenever I eat caviar, I always mix it with grits.
> 
> But anyway, isn't this crisis coming from struggling to find a way to say
> "If a person really likes caviar, and also likes grits, HE should try
> eating them together" so that the easily disturbed won't be disturbed?
> When writing (and in a position to reshape my utterances so as not to
> offend the fastidious), I usually will think to form such a sentence thus:
> "If people really like . . . THEY should. . . .  "  Is it proposed that
> that statement could be formed "If a person really likes . . . , Y'ALL
> should. . . ." and the fastidious will be contented?
> "If Y'ALL really like . . . , Y'ALL should. . . ." does work, but is no
> different from "If YOU . . . , YOU should. . . .", exploiting the fact that
> in American English, which doesn't use the pronoun "one", "you" is either
> the person spoken to, or an imaginary, typical, John Q. Public.
> 
> Speaking of disturbing the easily disturbed, am I the first to point out
> how disturbing the expression  "John Q. Public" is?  Surely the
> tender-minded must want an epicene first name here?  In speech, Jean/Gene
> Q. Public.  In writing, I can't call an example to mind, being only half
> way through my first cup of coffee.  There is always Barkevious, of course.
> 
> GAT
> 
> GAT
> 
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:24 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> "Chris wants y'all to give y'all more caviar and grits"
>> 
>> 
>> "Chris wants me to give me more caviar and grits"
>> 
>> "Chris wants them to give them more caviar and grits."
>> 
>> Hmm. You're right. Wouldn't anybody ever serve caviar and grits in the same
>> meal.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> -Wilson
>> -----
>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> -Mark Twain
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIBaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=BXdOpcUwWCV4ySl5y904KDPmcs_XDZxX3YwNpD-m4AY&s=bXJtXgiQhv_I7F96Mp5au-OxmXlXUM4K-RhJ7jgjA-M&e= 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> George A. Thompson
> The Guy Who Still Looks Stuff Up in Books.
> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> Univ. Pr., 1998..
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIBaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=BXdOpcUwWCV4ySl5y904KDPmcs_XDZxX3YwNpD-m4AY&s=bXJtXgiQhv_I7F96Mp5au-OxmXlXUM4K-RhJ7jgjA-M&e= 

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