[Ads-l] Olympics-related WOTY? (UNCLASSIFIED)

Tue Aug 16 01:26:21 UTC 2016

I agree.  The question of guilt or innocence, or of what degree of guilt/responsibility, is a complex one in the interesting cases.  Take two of the most famous goats, both clearly scapegoats, for their team defeats in recent post-season baseball history:  Bill Buckner of the Red Sox (whose error allowed the winning run to score for the Mets in the sixth game of the 1986 World Series), blamed universally (but especially around Boston) for the team's defeat, when in fact the tying run scored because of Gedman's passed ball (and terrible relief pitching by the Red Sox), without which Buckner's play never would have had a chance to happy), or the Cubs' fan Steve Bartman, whose interference with Cubs outfielder Moises Alou allowed the Marlins' batter another chance, which ultimately resulted in the Cubs losing *their* Game 6, which deprived them a chance to clinch the pennant.  But the goat could have more easily been a professional baseball player, the shortstop who booted an easy double-play ball that would have gotten the Cubs out of the inning without damage. (Cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bartman_incident)

So why were Buckner and Bartman the designated goats rather than the Red Sox catcher Gedman (or the relief pitchers who gave up the lead) or the Cubs' shortstop Gonzalez?  Complicated answer, but that's what happens when scapegoats are chosen.  

(There was also "Bonehead" Merkle who failed to touch second base leading to the New York Giants' losing the pennant when he was forced out on an apparent game-winning single--at a time when runners habitually skipped touching second under similar circumstances.  But a goat nonetheless.  Innocent?  Guilty?  You decide.)

LH 

> On Aug 15, 2016, at 7:36 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> Below is an example from August 1906 in the sports domain in which the
> "goat" of the game does seem to be a "scapegoat".
> 
> Date: August 08, 1906
> Newspaper: Rockford Republic
> Newspaper Location: Rockford, Illinois
> Article: Phillies Are Shut Out in Third Defeat
> Quote Page 2, Column 4
> Database: GenealogyBank
> 
> [Begin excerpt - double-check for errors]
> And still again the White Sox whipped the Athletics. Yes, it was the
> third victory in three days over Connie Mack's leaders, and the
> conquerors are running easy. Another errorless game behind the
> unbeatable pitching of Ed Walsh landed them the prize by the score of
> 4 to 0.
> 
> No less a baseball hero than George Edward Waddell had to be the goat
> for the on-rushing Sox yesterday. Too bad for "Rube," but the White
> Stockings are no respecter of persons these days.
> [End except]
> 
> This usage of "goat" seems to be nearly equivalent to "scapegoat".
> "Rube" Waddell, the goat, was the pitcher for the losing side, and he
> gave up four runs, but the article did not criticize him. The winners
> were extolled. They had "unbeatable pitching". Perhaps this citation
> helps to illustrate a transition of the denotation from an innocent
> party to a guilty party in later citations.
> 
> There are also examples in the political domain in the 1890s where a
> "goat" seems to be a sacrificial candidate (not sure pf the context).
> 
> Garson
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 7:21 PM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> wrote:
>> But, but, the goat of Azazel IS the the guilty one! That's the point.
>> 
>> On Aug 15, 2016 6:49 PM, "ADSGarson O'Toole" <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dan Goncharoff wrote:
>>>> What is this from? The goat of Azazel?
>>> 
>>> There was a short discussion of the early use of "goat" in the sports
>>> domain in the article that Ben Yagoda linked. Gerald Cohen was
>>> skeptical of the connection to scapegoat.
>>> 
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.grammarphobia.com_blog_2016_07_goat.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=ZtOktl0BEL_x_LxtQWcPJ_nO8tSWqoOR3lgNOgAav1E&s=skJnBqC5FpnyxrambVkuQO-JHQvzPCBsfY7L-NgBE4k&e= 
>>> 
>>> [Begin excerpt]
>>> Dickson notes that most explanations for the origin of the baseball
>>> usage describe it as a clipped form of "scapegoat" that refers "to a
>>> player whose error is being blamed for a team's defeat."
>>> 
>>> However, he points out that one language researcher, Gerald L. Cohen,
>>> challenged this theory in the Dec. 1, 1985, issue of Comments on
>>> Etymology.
>>> 
>>> "A scapegoat is innocent, whereas the goat is not; he has blundered,
>>> usually at a crucial moment," Cohen writes. "And the standard
>>> etymology of 'goat' as a shortening of 'scapegoat' is therefore almost
>>> certainly in error."
>>> 
>>> He suggests instead that the usage might have been influenced by a
>>> goat used to haul a peanut wagon in the late 19th century. Perhaps,
>>> but we think the erroneous-shortening hypothesis seems more likely.
>>> [End excerpt]
>>> 
>>> Garson
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 5:26 PM, MULLINS, WILLIAM D (Bill) CIV USARMY
>>>> RDECOM AMRDEC (US) <william.d.mullins18.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED
>>>>> 
>>>>> Slightly earlier:
>>>>> 
>>>>> _The Sporting Life_ 10 Aug 1907 p 5 col 4
>>>>> "Nick Altrock continues to be the goat. He is the unlucky pitcher of the
>>>>> team this year, and to date has won four games, lost eleven and tied
>>> one."
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Grammarphobia notes that goat has been used negatively in sports
>>> "as
>>>>> a derisive term for a player responsible for a team’s loss".
>>>>>> Grammarphobia provides an excellent citation via The Dickson Baseball
>>>>> Dictionary (3rd ed.), by Paul Dickson. The citation is dated October
>>>>>> 10, 1909. Here is an instance from a few months earlier:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Date: April 24, 1909
>>>>>> Newspaper: Denver Post
>>>>>> Newspaper Location: Denver, Colorado
>>>>>> Quote Page 7, Column 4
>>>>>> Database:GenealogyBank
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> [Begin excerpt]
>>>>>> It was all a question of luck, which broke the wrong way, as it
>>>>> sometimes will. The Sox inserted their bad breaks in the wrong places,
>>> and
>>>>> it
>>>>>> is with grief we announce the blowing up of Pilot Bill. He was the
>>> goat
>>>>> all right and is in position to cuss himself good and plenty.
>>>>>> If Bill had not included that cloud-rasping throw in the eighth the
>>>>> champions would not have been able to tie on Doc's wild pitch in the
>>>>>> eleventh.
>>>>>> [End excerpt]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=ZtOktl0BEL_x_LxtQWcPJ_nO8tSWqoOR3lgNOgAav1E&s=oi2bjvPeOgvzMsa_tmCRQMKSNvh4YxQpBTJYzABpCFo&e= 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=ZtOktl0BEL_x_LxtQWcPJ_nO8tSWqoOR3lgNOgAav1E&s=oi2bjvPeOgvzMsa_tmCRQMKSNvh4YxQpBTJYzABpCFo&e= 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> 
>> 
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> 
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