[Ads-l] _onry_ [< ornery < ordinary] "of man or beast: mean, nasty, angry, cruel, crude, unpleasant, dangerous, " etc..

[Laurence Horn]

There's a general tendency of words with meanings related to that of "orn'ry" to ameliorate, although synonyms and nominal counterparts may be constrained in other ways (applying only to humans, or only men).  This applies, for example, to "curmudgeon" (although, I concede, not to "sourpuss").  Maybe "sourpuss" (or "grouch", or "bastard") do become positive or admirable in the context of "lovable old ____".  (Compare the implausibility of "lovable old prick/asshole".)  A nice example of reclamation in this domain is "the Old Contemptibles", the label proudly worn by the British Expeditionary Force in WWI (memorialized in Westminster Abbey, which is how I learned about them); the name, we're told, comes from Kaiser Wilhelm's dismissive remarks about the treacherous English and their "contemptible little army".   

LH

> On Aug 16, 2016, at 2:25 PM, David Champion <dgc.ads at BIKESHED.US> wrote:
> 
> Anecdotally: my relatives in Albama and Geahgia considered ohnriness
> the same way.  I wouldn't go as far as saying it was a positive, but
> it certainly could be an endearing trait in a can-tankerous ol son of
> a gun.  Or less lovable in a mule.  But whether they meant lovably
> stubborn or confoundingly intransigent, the pronunciation was the same
> and I sensed the orthography would have been too.
> 
> I've never seen this written as _onry_, or any other way than _ornery_.
> I don't suppose I know for certain how my kinfolks spelled it, but
> they understood that _ornery_ was the word they were using and I
> suspect would write it that way.  When asked to explain the term, they
> enunciated more clearly: "ohnery."
> 
> * On 15 Aug 2016, Herb Stahlke wrote: 
>> In Central Indiana, I have heard "ornry" used to mean "endearingly
>> uncooperative."  Being ornry is generally a positive quality.
>> 
>> Herb
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Although _onry_ is, very likely, derived, ultimately, from _ordinary_
>>> through _ornery_, not to recognize it as a lexical item independent of them
>>> is like refusing to recognize _bust_ as a different lexical item from
>>> _burst_ or refusing to recognize _cum_ as a different lexical item from
>>> _come_ or refusing to recognize _ornery_ as a different lexical item from
>>> _ordinary_.
>>> 
>>> Indeed, refusing to admit the distinction is straight-up onry.
>>> 
>>> I've tried to persuade myself that _onry_ "aahnrih"  and "ornery" are the
>>> same word since I first heard "ornery" used by George Francis "Gabby" Hayes
>>> in the Western movies of the horse-opera era. All that would have been
>>> necessary to persuade me that such was the case would have been the use of
>>> _onry_ by any random white speaker or the use of _ornery_ by some random
>>> black speaker.
>>> 
>>> That has never happened.
>>> 
>>> I offer perhaps weak evidence that, among black speakers, the connection
>>> between _onry_ and _ornery_ had been lost by the turn of the last century.
>>> 
>>> As I was Googling to see whether _onry_ - or, perhaps, _awnry_, since
>>> "onry" could rhyme with "only" - I came across the following:
>>> 
>>> The Black Cat Club: Negro Humor & Folk-lore - Page 18-19
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__books.google.com_books-3Fid-3DVQ9AAAAAYAAJ&d=CwIDaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=rj7x1gFUmFo8UJ_TJmnppwx-k8qdxess4dwWj-0CRoI&s=VsRPJSDxQJpNGfUW143hr5EJvWWxd6pLkFexk-493nE&e= 
>>> James David Corrothers - 1902 - ‎Read - ‎More editions
>>> The club has no honorary members, but, by virtue of its constitution, it is
>>> allowed to have 999. Contrary to general usage, however, these members will
>>> not be chosen because of their brilliance or the honor that they are
>>> expected to reflect upon the club; nor will they be called honorary members
>>> at all. They will be denominated 'onry members,' and will be chosen because
>>> they are considered too 'onry' to belong to the club---"
>>> 
>>> in which _onry_ is punned with _honorary_ and not with _ornery_ or
>>> _ordinary_. But the fact that the author didn't do that is not evidence
>>> that he couldn't have done that or wouldn't have done that - because the
>>> semantic connection had been lost - if he had felt like it.
>>> --
>>> -Wilson
>>> -----
>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>> -Mark Twain
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIDaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=rj7x1gFUmFo8UJ_TJmnppwx-k8qdxess4dwWj-0CRoI&s=VxpoXPMowXUU4eT8ymxtUp2zQdBOipyODbiWQCf2yww&e= 
>>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> 
> -- 
> David Champion • dgc at bikeshed.us
> 
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