[Ads-l] "slave"

Wed Aug 31 20:25:20 UTC 2016

Joel, that's a great cite! Thanks for actually finding it. I stand
corrected. (Laurence, I appreciate you fixing my analogy! A++.)

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 4:16 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> And check this out for the hell of it:
>
> https://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_Spangled_Banner
>
> JL
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 31, 2016, at 3:32 PM, Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET> wrote:
> > >
> > > Many if not most enslaved blacks, as well as free blacks, did consider
> > themselves Americans.    They wanted to stay, and to succeed, in in the
> > United States.  Witness the failure of the ante-bellum "colonization
> > movement", aimed at solving racial problems by inducing blacks to remove
> > back to Africa, and thus making America all-white.  Few blacks supported
> it.
> > >
> > > The earliest (current) quotation in the OED for "African-American" is
> > from what I take to be the writing of a black, near the end of the
> > Revolution.  The author is proud to call himself an African-American, and
> > praises the Revolution:
> > >
> > > 1782   ‘An African American’ Serm. on Capture Ld. Cornwallis p. iii,
> >  That the ruler of the universe may crown with success the cause of
> > freedom, and speedily relieve your bleeding country, is the hearty wish
> of
> > an African American.
> > >
> >
> > Thanks, Joel.  I should have checked.
> >
> > > (Thee problem with an analogy with "Chinese" is that it is a "racial"
> > characterization as well as ethnic or political.)
> > >
> > >
> > Well, maybe so, but if I were shanghaied (or brusseled) by a colleague of
> > F.K.'s kidnapper and transported overseas to Belgium and were bound and
> > forced to work in a chocolate factory, I wouldn't consider myself Belgian
> > either.
> >
> > LH
> > >
> > >      From: Flourish Klink <flourish.klink at GMAIL.COM>
> > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 11:54 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "slave"
> > >
> > > Separate from the historical perspective, I would be shocked if the
> > > enslaved people in question considered themselves Americans. (If
> someone
> > > kidnapped me, transported me overseas to China and set me to work in a
> > > factory, I certainly wouldn't consider myself Chinese!)
> > >
> > > F
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:02 AM Joel Berson <berson at att.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Sali,
> > >>
> > >> Do you consider 1814, when "The Star-Spangled Banner" was written, as
> > >> being during the colonial period of the US?  A very Anglo-philic
> stance,
> > >> just what the British were still believing then?  :-)  I would say
> there
> > >> were "enslaved African-Americans" in 1814.
> > >>
> > >> Joel
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>       From: Salikoko S. Mufwene <s-mufwene at UCHICAGO.EDU>
> > >>   To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > >>   Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 9:51 AM
> > >>   Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "slave"
> > >>
> > >> Just a minor correction, JL. From a historical perspective, there were
> > >> enslaved Africans, not enslaved African Americans during the colonial
> > >> history of the US or of the 13 English colonies. During that time the
> > >> class of Americans was very restricted, even some Europeans did not
> > >> count as Americans.
> > >>
> > >> Sali.
> > >>
> > >> On 8/31/2016 7:06 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > >>> Former tennis star James Blake has explained to CNN that "The
> > >> Star-Spangled
> > >>> Banner" is "a song that advocates the killing of slaves."
> > >>>
> > >>> The "hireling and slave" in the song, of course, are not enslaved
> > >>> African-Americans but redcoats, Hessian mercenaries, and cringing
> > Tories.
> > >>>
> > >>> Proof? Read the lyrics.
> > >>>
> > >>> Of course, as D----d T---p has demonstrated, words don't mean much
> > >> anymore.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> JL
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> **********************************************************
> > >> Salikoko S. Mufwene                    s-mufwene at uchicago.edu
> > >> The Frank J. McLoraine Distinguished Service Professor of Linguistics
> > and
> > >> the College
> > >> Professor, Committee on Evolutionary Biology
> > >> Professor, Committee on the Conceptual & Historical Studies of Science
> > >> University of Chicago                  773-702-8531; FAX 773-834-0924
> > >> Department of Linguistics
> > >> 1115 East 58th Street
> > >> Chicago, IL 60637, USA
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> > uchicago.edu_&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> > wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> > QImof9AvHENDdXT6lr2Sp29Bh22cZIHsiWUyu5X8cLs&s=UEK5ScKDJDoA0y_MCf3-
> > wspezv7o5c4tGYhboT58k-8&e=
> > >> **********************************************************
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > ywKp02dGHg9Bv82DCPTwJzJhccFbOju6motzcEM0d1U&e=
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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> > ywKp02dGHg9Bv82DCPTwJzJhccFbOju6motzcEM0d1U&e=
> > >>
> > >
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> > ywKp02dGHg9Bv82DCPTwJzJhccFbOju6motzcEM0d1U&e=
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > QImof9AvHENDdXT6lr2Sp29Bh22cZIHsiWUyu5X8cLs&s=
> > ywKp02dGHg9Bv82DCPTwJzJhccFbOju6motzcEM0d1U&e=
> >
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>
>
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>
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