[Ads-l] "slave"

Wed Aug 31 20:49:14 UTC 2016

Why else?

JL

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 4:34 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
wrote:

> So it turns out that the reason English rather than Scots is the
> quasi-official language of the U.S. is to preserve the rhymes in the S.S.B.?
>
> LH
>
> > On Aug 31, 2016, at 4:16 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> >
> > And check this out for the hell of it:
> >
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__sco.
> wikipedia.org_wiki_The-5FStar-5FSpangled-5FBanner&d=CwIFaQ&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=jwUP-Bh8P5Uo16UcFRK3v4zxksGQ2vH5UUtChhxGRog&s=HD3jNlU_
> XAdkdWROPxzKGHiz0T_bQ_VDuk1iqKJ1Ez8&e=
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 3:32 PM, Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Many if not most enslaved blacks, as well as free blacks, did consider
> >> themselves Americans.    They wanted to stay, and to succeed, in in the
> >> United States.  Witness the failure of the ante-bellum "colonization
> >> movement", aimed at solving racial problems by inducing blacks to remove
> >> back to Africa, and thus making America all-white.  Few blacks
> supported it.
> >>>
> >>> The earliest (current) quotation in the OED for "African-American" is
> >> from what I take to be the writing of a black, near the end of the
> >> Revolution.  The author is proud to call himself an African-American,
> and
> >> praises the Revolution:
> >>>
> >>> 1782   ‘An African American’ Serm. on Capture Ld. Cornwallis p. iii,
> >> That the ruler of the universe may crown with success the cause of
> >> freedom, and speedily relieve your bleeding country, is the hearty wish
> of
> >> an African American.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thanks, Joel.  I should have checked.
> >>
> >>> (Thee problem with an analogy with "Chinese" is that it is a "racial"
> >> characterization as well as ethnic or political.)
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Well, maybe so, but if I were shanghaied (or brusseled) by a colleague
> of
> >> F.K.'s kidnapper and transported overseas to Belgium and were bound and
> >> forced to work in a chocolate factory, I wouldn't consider myself
> Belgian
> >> either.
> >>
> >> LH
> >>>
> >>>     From: Flourish Klink <flourish.klink at GMAIL.COM>
> >>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 11:54 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "slave"
> >>>
> >>> Separate from the historical perspective, I would be shocked if the
> >>> enslaved people in question considered themselves Americans. (If
> someone
> >>> kidnapped me, transported me overseas to China and set me to work in a
> >>> factory, I certainly wouldn't consider myself Chinese!)
> >>>
> >>> F
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:02 AM Joel Berson <berson at att.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Sali,
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you consider 1814, when "The Star-Spangled Banner" was written, as
> >>>> being during the colonial period of the US?  A very Anglo-philic
> stance,
> >>>> just what the British were still believing then?  :-)  I would say
> there
> >>>> were "enslaved African-Americans" in 1814.
> >>>>
> >>>> Joel
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>      From: Salikoko S. Mufwene <s-mufwene at UCHICAGO.EDU>
> >>>>  To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>>  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 9:51 AM
> >>>>  Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "slave"
> >>>>
> >>>> Just a minor correction, JL. From a historical perspective, there were
> >>>> enslaved Africans, not enslaved African Americans during the colonial
> >>>> history of the US or of the 13 English colonies. During that time the
> >>>> class of Americans was very restricted, even some Europeans did not
> >>>> count as Americans.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sali.
> >>>>
> >>>> On 8/31/2016 7:06 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>>>> Former tennis star James Blake has explained to CNN that "The
> >>>> Star-Spangled
> >>>>> Banner" is "a song that advocates the killing of slaves."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The "hireling and slave" in the song, of course, are not enslaved
> >>>>> African-Americans but redcoats, Hessian mercenaries, and cringing
> >> Tories.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Proof? Read the lyrics.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Of course, as D----d T---p has demonstrated, words don't mean much
> >>>> anymore.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> JL
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> **********************************************************
> >>>> Salikoko S. Mufwene                    s-mufwene at uchicago.edu
> >>>> The Frank J. McLoraine Distinguished Service Professor of Linguistics
> >> and
> >>>> the College
> >>>> Professor, Committee on Evolutionary Biology
> >>>> Professor, Committee on the Conceptual & Historical Studies of Science
> >>>> University of Chicago                  773-702-8531; FAX 773-834-0924
> >>>> Department of Linguistics
> >>>> 1115 East 58th Street
> >>>> Chicago, IL 60637, USA
> >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mufwene.
> >> uchicago.edu_&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> >> wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> >> QImof9AvHENDdXT6lr2Sp29Bh22cZIHsiWUyu5X8cLs&s=UEK5ScKDJDoA0y_MCf3-
> >> wspezv7o5c4tGYhboT58k-8&e=
> >>>> **********************************************************
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.proofpoint&d=CwIFaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=jwUP-Bh8P5Uo16UcFRK3v4zxksGQ2vH5UUtChhxGRog&s=NdkZ-
> cc3wgLLl80jTMQHu5tPwCkXY1q57pUtXKQKWiI&e= .
> >> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&
> >> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> >> QImof9AvHENDdXT6lr2Sp29Bh22cZIHsiWUyu5X8cLs&s=
> >> ywKp02dGHg9Bv82DCPTwJzJhccFbOju6motzcEM0d1U&e=
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.proofpoint&d=CwIFaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=jwUP-Bh8P5Uo16UcFRK3v4zxksGQ2vH5UUtChhxGRog&s=NdkZ-
> cc3wgLLl80jTMQHu5tPwCkXY1q57pUtXKQKWiI&e= .
> >> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&
> >> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> >> QImof9AvHENDdXT6lr2Sp29Bh22cZIHsiWUyu5X8cLs&s=
> >> ywKp02dGHg9Bv82DCPTwJzJhccFbOju6motzcEM0d1U&e=
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.proofpoint&d=CwIFaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=jwUP-Bh8P5Uo16UcFRK3v4zxksGQ2vH5UUtChhxGRog&s=NdkZ-
> cc3wgLLl80jTMQHu5tPwCkXY1q57pUtXKQKWiI&e= .
> >> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&
> >> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> >> QImof9AvHENDdXT6lr2Sp29Bh22cZIHsiWUyu5X8cLs&s=
> >> ywKp02dGHg9Bv82DCPTwJzJhccFbOju6motzcEM0d1U&e=
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.proofpoint&d=CwIFaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=jwUP-Bh8P5Uo16UcFRK3v4zxksGQ2vH5UUtChhxGRog&s=NdkZ-
> cc3wgLLl80jTMQHu5tPwCkXY1q57pUtXKQKWiI&e= .
> >> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&
> >> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> >> QImof9AvHENDdXT6lr2Sp29Bh22cZIHsiWUyu5X8cLs&s=
> >> ywKp02dGHg9Bv82DCPTwJzJhccFbOju6motzcEM0d1U&e=
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=jwUP-Bh8P5Uo16UcFRK3v4zxksGQ2vH5UUtChhxGRog&s=
> GQqcV7rjuygZ2Ho7i0QnGt_EliskUi-tQubywOjGOdc&e=
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=jwUP-Bh8P5Uo16UcFRK3v4zxksGQ2vH5UUtChhxGRog&s=
> GQqcV7rjuygZ2Ho7i0QnGt_EliskUi-tQubywOjGOdc&e=
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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