[Ads-l] more nominalized adjs.

Sat Dec 3 12:49:37 UTC 2016

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"When I get home from work, I like simple. And this is simple."

JL

On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Margaret Winters <mewinters at wayne.edu>
wrote:

> Yes, it is the military and the church - choices for non-inheriting sons...
>
>
> ----------------------------
> MARGARET E WINTERS
> On Leave
> Office of the Provost
> Wayne State University
> Detroit, MI  48202
>
> mewinters at wayne.edu
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 7:31 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: more nominalized adjs.
>
> > On Nov 25, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET> wrote:
> >
> > I recognize that my examples were quite ordinary, but they were put in
> to indicate some history.  The "innovative forms" that Larry refers to do
> seem innovative (meaning "recent") to me.
> >
> > I should, I suppose, have rendered Stendhal's title in English.  But it
> sounds less recent in French.
> >
> >
> > Joel
>
> Also, because of the difference between French and English, "le rouge et
> le noir" could in principle (although not in Stendhal's case) refer to a
> red man and a black man, while "the red and the black" can only refer to
> either the colors themselves or the life choices those colors metonymically
> stand for via (if memory serves) military and clerical garb respectively.
> It's been more decades than I care to admit, both for the book and the
> excellent movie with Gérard Philippe as Sorel.
>
> LH
> >
> >
> >      From: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ADS-L] more nominalized adjs.
> >
> > Right; we're really playing a bit fast and loose and silly.  Joel's and
> my ventures are deadjectival common nouns for properties, which is quite
> productive and occur with determiners ("the red", "the bad", et al.).  Then
> there are the ones that turn a property into a noun denoting those who
> possess it, which in French can be done with singular reference ("le
> pauvre", "la vielle") or plural ("les riches") but in English usually only
> with plural ("the poor", "the old", "the rich").
> > But the innovative forms involve deadjectival abstract mass nouns, which
> can appear without an article ("I know crazy/grumpy when I see it", "I'm
> done with complicated") or, if with an article, to pick out the property
> and not those who possess it ("What's with the grumpy?" meaning something
> like 'What's with the grumpiness?', not 'What's with the grumpy folks?').
> I think that's the idea, although probably there's a Language Log post that
> explains all this more clearly.
> >
> > LH
> >
> >> On Nov 25, 2016, at 2:23 PM, Margaret Winters <mewinters at WAYNE.EDU>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> French is not quite the same since pretty much any adjective can be
> nominalized by using it with a determiner of some kind.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------
> >> MARGARET E WINTERS
> >> On Leave
> >> Office of the Provost
> >> Wayne State University
> >> Detroit, MI  48202
> >>
> >> mewinters at wayne.edu
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2016 8:27 PM
> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: more nominalized adjs.
> >>
> >> The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly?
> >>
> >>> On Nov 24, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Le Rouge et le Noir?  The Quick and the Dead?
> >>>
> >>> Joel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     From: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 7:31 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] more nominalized adjs.
> >>>
> >>> Combining to suggest a spinoff from _The Young and the Restless_:
> _The Complicated and the Crazy_.
> >>>
> >>>> On Nov 23, 2016, at 5:36 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> _The Young and the Restless_:
> >>>>
> >>>> "People take time out from the crazy in their lives."
> >>>>
> >>>> JL
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> United Healthcare:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "I'm done with complicated!"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> JL
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 6:20 AM, Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> 2016 _Supergirl_ (CW TV): Hey, what's with the grumpy?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> JL
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Laurence Horn <
> laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yup, more subjects.  I do have the vague sense that these are (all)
> >>>>>>> somehow a bit metalinguistic, and that BCBL questions, for
> example, aren't
> >>>>>>> entirely synonymous with "What does fearlessness look like?" or
> "Does
> >>>>>>> fearlessness age?",  but I won't try to propose an analysis.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> LH
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Nov 14, 2016, at 10:32 AM, Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Dispositive Blue Cross Blue Shield ad:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "What does fearless look like? Does fearless age?"
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> JL
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 8:46 PM, Laurence Horn <
> laurence.horn at yale.edu
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Nov 13, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> >>>>>>> wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Sonic:  "Nothing tastes better than free!"
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Am starting to think these nominalized forms occur only in
> objective
> >>>>>>>>>> positions. True?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I don't think so, at least if we count equative structures:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "Crazy is fine. I can go for crazy."
> >>>>>>>>> "Cozy is what I like."
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Rinse and repeat for other nouned adjectives.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> LH
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 8:23 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> >>>>>>>>> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Trailer for the new Warren Beatty movie: "If you're crazy, I
> want
> >>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>>>>> crazy!"
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> JL
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com
> >
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Jonathan Lighter <
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The ad says that to make the Duluth Trading Fire Hose Shirt
> Jac,
> >>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>> took
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "tough,  toasty, and some cozy."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Another example, from the NYT Online:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "The hatred toward her would have bloomed forth unchecked:
> more
> >>>>>>>>>>>> obstruction, more mudslinging, more investigations, _more
> vile_
> >>>>>>> would
> >>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>>>>> been in store for her."
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>> -Wilson
> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----
> >>>>>>>>>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange
> >>>>>>> complaint to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> -Mark Twain
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.proofpoint&d=CwIBaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=ekvqyMyuIbXK0_BJgv4wm645szdje-5hF6taGRhOt0E&
> s=P6a5fTEiIs_qLvXKIRtRwXP_0Gmww7i5F5LhDBZGH1Y&e= .
> >>>>>>> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.proofpoint&d=CwIBaQ&c=-dg2
> >>>>>>> m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMF
> >>>>>>> FaLQ&m=WcBOBBjidvuYC78_Zj-Cv5jG4VFdsjy7ug1rpdx0Ua8&s=TUbGTsg
> >>>>>>> wqZMbeSV-U1XvKiZZB-nwZqqrUX_qqe_8fXo&e= .
> >>>>>>>>> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIBaQ&
> >>>>>>>>> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> >>>>>>>>> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=OWzFW_3eNE-QOhJ4wE2Qi9Ag1oawuyS9cgDHd5nAJNQ&
> >>>>>>> s=WAxEM2AIS_
> >>>>>>>>> jwbLgjwbtcXdFJfnMY-i3W8hyXvPPVRzQ&e=
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't
> handle the
> >>>>>>>>> truth."
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> the
> >>>>>>>>> truth."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.proofpoint&d=CwIBaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=ekvqyMyuIbXK0_BJgv4wm645szdje-5hF6taGRhOt0E&
> s=P6a5fTEiIs_qLvXKIRtRwXP_0Gmww7i5F5LhDBZGH1Y&e= .
> >>>>>>> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.proofpoint&d=CwIBaQ&c=-dg2
> >>>>>>> m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMF
> >>>>>>> FaLQ&m=WcBOBBjidvuYC78_Zj-Cv5jG4VFdsjy7ug1rpdx0Ua8&s=TUbGTsg
> >>>>>>> wqZMbeSV-U1XvKiZZB-nwZqqrUX_qqe_8fXo&e= .
> >>>>>>>>> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIBaQ&
> >>>>>>>>> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> >>>>>>>>> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=OWzFW_3eNE-QOhJ4wE2Qi9Ag1oawuyS9cgDHd5nAJNQ&
> >>>>>>> s=WAxEM2AIS_
> >>>>>>>>> jwbLgjwbtcXdFJfnMY-i3W8hyXvPPVRzQ&e=
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.proofpoint&d=CwIBaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=ekvqyMyuIbXK0_BJgv4wm645szdje-5hF6taGRhOt0E&
> s=P6a5fTEiIs_qLvXKIRtRwXP_0Gmww7i5F5LhDBZGH1Y&e= .
> >>>>>>> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIBaQ&c=-dg
> >>>>>>> 2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsM
> >>>>>>> FFaLQ&m=WcBOBBjidvuYC78_Zj-Cv5jG4VFdsjy7ug1rpdx0Ua8&s=hskzPl
> >>>>>>> b6U1zDstfC0igIppMQAjeNFXnpUPdwv-8R9mA&e=
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> the
> >>>>>>> truth."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.proofpoint&d=CwIBaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=ekvqyMyuIbXK0_BJgv4wm645szdje-5hF6taGRhOt0E&
> s=P6a5fTEiIs_qLvXKIRtRwXP_0Gmww7i5F5LhDBZGH1Y&e= .
> >>>>>>> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIBaQ&c=-dg
> >>>>>>> 2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsM
> >>>>>>> FFaLQ&m=WcBOBBjidvuYC78_Zj-Cv5jG4VFdsjy7ug1rpdx0Ua8&s=hskzPl
> >>>>>>> b6U1zDstfC0igIppMQAjeNFXnpUPdwv-8R9mA&e=
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIBaQ&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=ekvqyMyuIbXK0_BJgv4wm645szdje-5hF6taGRhOt0E&s=XGmu-
> ySrNG5UdMMigMHRlfDPx6GwuVh8TaxQzuRc6P0&e=
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >>>>>> truth."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIBaQ&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=ekvqyMyuIbXK0_BJgv4wm645szdje-5hF6taGRhOt0E&s=XGmu-
> ySrNG5UdMMigMHRlfDPx6GwuVh8TaxQzuRc6P0&e=
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> o4aa9PW1Oqvk0w8amMtSmW95vYdxLrYexG6_5Nl6GCo&s=
> KenT5lvTen8bzQhYgtnmqadsiaSZ8ZQEz7Jd1-kHxEQ&e=
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> o4aa9PW1Oqvk0w8amMtSmW95vYdxLrYexG6_5Nl6GCo&s=
> KenT5lvTen8bzQhYgtnmqadsiaSZ8ZQEz7Jd1-kHxEQ&e=
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFAw&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=QAdVUe3YBBWyv-4L-cg5nTWLjAJFNLsqqv9RVeN-OFA&s=
> 4xgK7Q3QxfuibkTAwCN2iIKZ2DMhul6qmul8fWuYjw4&e=
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFAw&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=QAdVUe3YBBWyv-4L-cg5nTWLjAJFNLsqqv9RVeN-OFA&s=
> 4xgK7Q3QxfuibkTAwCN2iIKZ2DMhul6qmul8fWuYjw4&e=
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> R5RQaY9DBB8ZM64_C4RjB5PP9cey0Q2zldr-Evuu4KU&s=r7mNl2RQVTorvfqdZ_
> 8yyzwx8YYOClC2brW6Cf4tWAA&e=
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> R5RQaY9DBB8ZM64_C4RjB5PP9cey0Q2zldr-Evuu4KU&s=r7mNl2RQVTorvfqdZ_
> 8yyzwx8YYOClC2brW6Cf4tWAA&e=
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
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