[Ads-l] batshit

Jonathan Lighter wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Sun Dec 11 21:03:40 EST 2016


I have also encountered "bullshit" in the meaning of "crazy," but only
since the 1970s.

The 1950 "bat shit" strikes me as unidiomatic and very odd.

At any rate, see HDAS I.

JL

On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at gmail.com>
wrote:

> If I understand this right, the sense that is an alternative for bullshit
> is:
>
>         • A worthless or contemptible thing; rubbish, nonsense. Cf.
> bullshit n. (1950 M. Shedd Return to Beach ii. 156: "I felt the minute hand
> of that bat shit of a Judas clock stand up to me.”)
>
> For me, “bullshit” does not work in this sentence. Cf.
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullshit <https://en.wiktionary.org/
> wiki/bullshit>. Perhaps the meaning of bullshit has changed.
>
> BB
>
> > On 11 Dec 2016, at 17:02, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> wrote:
> >
> > At http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/38354/where-did-
> the-phrase-batsht-crazy-come-from we read that while histoplasmosis may
> indeed be implicated, the first occurrences of “batshit” were as variants
> of “bullshit”.  Clearly, the meaning has shifted over the decades.  Given
> the standardly assumed culpability cat poop in the spread of
> *toxo*plasmosis (a danger I still somewhat suspect of having been
> exaggerated if not wholly invented to give pregnant women an excuse to have
> their partners clean the litter box full time for the duration of
> gestation), I wondered whether “catshit crazy” also occurred, and it
> does—99 actual g-hits.  Still pales next to batshit and histoplasmosis, but
> it’s not *that* shabby…
> >
> > LH
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 11, 2016, at 6:24 PM, Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Fascinating theory, thank you! The timeline of histoplasmosis on
> Wikipedia (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Histoplasmosis-23History&d=CwIFaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=Q8K54hclGiMKW6TYRNp9_LY_
> uM5161rDn-eDSo4tAV4&e=  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Histoplasmosis-23History&d=CwIFaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=Q8K54hclGiMKW6TYRNp9_LY_
> uM5161rDn-eDSo4tAV4&e= >) matches well with the citations. BB
> >>
> >>> On 11 Dec 2016, at 15:21, David Champion <dgc.ads at BIKESHED.US> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I have been under the impression that "batshit crazy" derives
> >>> from the possibility of delirious or psychotic behavior induced
> >>> by histoplasmosis acquired through inhalation of fungus from bat
> >>> guano.  I find a few allusions to this medical possibility, e.g.
> >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
> ncbi.nlm.nih.gov_pmc_articles_PMC4520962_&d=CwIFaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> 8QhaOjEsZowLe2BQvo3c9lwnv93qgtdPXu-fy-ldb-Y&e= , but nothing
> >>> detailed in a cursory search.
> >>>
> >>> Not sure this is well substantiated, but it sounds great.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> * On 11 Dec 2016, Barretts Mail wrote:
> >>>> The online Oxford Dictionary (https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.oxforddictionaries.com_
> definition_batshit&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> VMFMAKFD3K45Veje4TGfwre0TUxrggyT7VrO80sRq6M&e=  <https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.oxforddictionaries.com_
> definition_batshit&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> VMFMAKFD3K45Veje4TGfwre0TUxrggyT7VrO80sRq6M&e= >) says that “batshit” is
> an adjective meaning completely crazy. That meaning seems odd to me (e.g.,
> “she’s batshit” or “that’s a batshit idea") but Wiktionary (
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__en.wiktionary.org_wiki_batshit&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> 1Pny5jmMeks4H4THgP6LOEjxxJDTxhmqjcdz964d3HM&e=  <https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wiktionary.org_wiki_
> batshit&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> 1Pny5jmMeks4H4THgP6LOEjxxJDTxhmqjcdz964d3HM&e= >) and the Urban
> Dictionary (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-
> 3A__www.urbandictionary.com_define.php-3Fterm-3Dbatshit&d=CwIFaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> YI10Swiaoq1s5C6tHirmFLO3qPO3xZJ1u4uISz4kdWg&e=  <https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.urbandictionary.com_
> define.php-3Fterm-3Dbatshit&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> YI10Swiaoq1s5C6tHirmFLO3qPO3xZJ1u4uISz4kdWg&e= >) concur.
> >>>>
> >>>> I consider “batshit” to be an adverb particularly in collations such
> as “batshit crazy”, which Wiktionary and the UD have.
> >>>>
> >>>> About the origin, the Wiktionary talk page (https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wiktionary.org_wiki_
> Talk-3Abatshit&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=M_NGIBqZ5-
> LSXOJ8x_yjG--6kYyEdTkpV_cJedi2Ei0&e=  <https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wiktionary.org_wiki_
> Talk-3Abatshit&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=M_NGIBqZ5-
> LSXOJ8x_yjG--6kYyEdTkpV_cJedi2Ei0&e= >) has mention of an opinion on some
> forum that this usage of “batshit" comes from “bats in the belfry.” That
> expression has seemed dated to me for at least twenty years but could
> certainly be accurate given the dates and the contexts of the citations
> below. For “batshit crazy,” however, the irregular flitting movement of
> bats is a better metaphorical image to me.
> >>>>
> >>>> "The New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English” (
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-
> 3A__bit.ly_2hjnjTb&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> dYLhxvctEgypIzGEkR480P7Z9he0teb3ZFt1jSxgNm8&e=  <https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bit.ly_2hjnjTb&d=CwIFaQ&c=
> -dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> dYLhxvctEgypIzGEkR480P7Z9he0teb3ZFt1jSxgNm8&e= >, 2015, edited by Tom
> Dalzell and Terry Victor) have both parts of speech, the adjective to 1972
> and the adverb to 1988.
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. "End Over End” (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-
> 3A__bit.ly_2hdKEbB&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> EHw8BXdT8tuahSJ6r9UMvH2xIsnKTrtoZ2Xlj0KE790&e=  <https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bit.ly_2hdKEbB&d=CwIFaQ&c=
> -dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> EHw8BXdT8tuahSJ6r9UMvH2xIsnKTrtoZ2Xlj0KE790&e= >, 1946, by Nelson
> Gidding, date confirmed by https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Nelson-5FGidding&d=CwIFaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=qELOz8ZIDWf6iLV_
> b8fK0H9KMExQmPu0y7g2eqllzfs&e=  <https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_
> Nelson-5FGidding&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=qELOz8ZIDWf6iLV_
> b8fK0H9KMExQmPu0y7g2eqllzfs&e= >).
> >>>>
> >>>> ——
> >>>> … the evading American airman. Batshit. They …
> >>>> Batshit. He was indulging in housemaids’ theology.
> >>>> Batshit. You’ll never get a cigarette that way.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2. “The Longest Way Round” (https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bit.ly_2gPn7uj&d=CwIFaQ&c=
> -dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=y-8K9dH_
> zLNr3mtOpWmf8QWOhXSdz540B47QD0oB2tQ&e=  <https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bit.ly_2gPn7uj&d=CwIFaQ&c=
> -dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=y-8K9dH_
> zLNr3mtOpWmf8QWOhXSdz540B47QD0oB2tQ&e= >, 1958 Google-dated, by Bart
> Cole) has the term three times.
> >>>>
> >>>> ——
> >>>> And the goddamn wire broke, he thought, when I felt the minute hand
> of that bat shit of a Judas clock stand up to me.
> >>>> “Oh bat shit,” I said. “I’m going home.”
> >>>> “Bat shit,” I said. “You do not have to go if you don’t want to.”
> >>>> ——
> >>>>
> >>>> The dating seems accurate as per https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bit.ly_2hdPyoJ&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> wk6ilZa1QGa75JEx5TEaKI5VV6Hiswjr9X39xgu2VxA&e=  <https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bit.ly_2hdPyoJ&d=CwIFaQ&c=
> -dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> wk6ilZa1QGa75JEx5TEaKI5VV6Hiswjr9X39xgu2VxA&e= > and
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bit.ly_
> 2hBuBB7&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxP
> IWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> TQjlkYXhAtqpCptL5bLZn2eItzP9crivj8zjIEY4P8k&e=  <https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bit.ly_2hBuBB7&d=CwIFaQ&c=
> -dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=
> TQjlkYXhAtqpCptL5bLZn2eItzP9crivj8zjIEY4P8k&e= >. But FWIW, "Return to
> the Beach” (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-
> 3A__bit.ly_2hBv1aN&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=cAF7lo9TUhCozPeXFHVsMQ5e_
> VVsLkDrKOBwuWl2yo0&e=  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-
> 3A__bit.ly_2hBv1aN&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=
> 7KvzPERoHB0Bn5AAcs7PPOz2MOp9-NoCbxNYwDHlQSk&s=cAF7lo9TUhCozPeXFHVsMQ5e_
> VVsLkDrKOBwuWl2yo0&e= >, 1950 Google-dated, by Margaret Shedd) has the
> same Judas clock line.
> >>>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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