[Ads-l] Pronunciation of "faith" and "also" in parts of Alabama

Wed Mar 2 23:05:01 UTC 2016

Oh. I say "elts", and I'm from S.C. Midlands. But I don't say al[t]so or Wil[t]son.

Sent from phone.

---- Paul A Johnston, Jr wrote ----

>---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       "Paul A Johnston, Jr" <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>Subject:      Re: Pronunciation of "faith" and "also" in parts of Alabama
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>It's also why you get the usual W MI (and elsewhere?) pronunciation of else as "elts".
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Laurence Horn" <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2016 2:51:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pronunciation of "faith" and "also" in parts of Alabama
>> 
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> Subject:      Re: Pronunciation of "faith" and "also" in parts of
>> Alabama
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> > On Mar 2, 2016, at 2:19 PM, Charlie Law <chaslaw at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> >=20
>> > [Ugh. Still got these pesky character-encoding probs. Here's
>> > another =
>> try.]
>> >=20
>> > Thanks, Walter! That's an explanation that makes sense to me.
>> >=20
>> > It shows how hypercorrection doesn't follow the derivational
>> > pattern =
>> that
>> > it's evidently motivated by: "width" < "wide", "breadth" < "broad",
>> > =3D"fai[t]th" < ???.
>> >=20
>> > Now, can you tell me what's going on with "al[t]so"?
>> >=20
>> > Similar case: in Florence, Alabama, and in Shelby, NC, I heard this
>> > pronunciation of the 28th president's surname: "Wil[t]son". This
>> > must =
>> be
>> > the same inland Southern (piedmont, not mountain) dialect that I
>> > hear =
>> in
>> > upstate S.C.
>> 
>> Those really do involve excrescent stop consonants (see WB's (1)
>> below), =
>> which often occur between sonorants (nasals, laterals like [l], etc.)
>> =
>> and fricatives (like [s]), sometimes but not always represented in
>> the =
>> spelling.  It's why the nouns from "assume" or "redeem" are
>> "assumption" =
>> and "redemption" with epenthetic [p]'s, why there are jokes about how
>> a =
>> good doctor must have a lot of patients/patience [these being =
>> homophones], why "sense" is often homophonous with "scents", and so
>> on.  =
>> The [p] or [t] in such cases is "excrescent" in that it grows out of
>> the =
>> collision between the two consonants, yielding an easier articulation
>> of =
>> the sonorant + fricative sequence (or sequents).  (I'm not a =
>> phonetician, nor do I play one on TV; maybe Herb or someone with
>> similar =
>> credentials can pop in here.)
>> 
>> LH
>> 
>> >=20
>> >=20
>> > On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Charles Law <chaslaw at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >=20
>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >> -----------------------
>> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> Poster:       Charles Law <chaslaw at GMAIL.COM>
>> >> Subject:      Re: Pronunciation of "faith" and "also" in parts of
>> >> =
>> Alabama
>> >>=20
>> >> =
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>> -----
>> >>=20
>> >> Thanks, Walter! That=3DE2=3D80=3D99s an explanation that makes
>> >> sense =
>> to me.=3D20
>> >>=20
>> >> It shows how hypercorrection doesn=3DE2=3D80=3D99t follow =
>> derivational pattern
>> >> that it=3DE2=3D
>> >> =3D80=3D99s evidently motivated by:
>> >> =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cwidth=3DE2=3D80=3D9D=
>>  <
>> >> =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cwide=3DE2=3D80=3D9D,
>> >> =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cbreadth=3DE2=3D80=3D=
>> 9D < =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cbro=3D
>> >> ad=3DE2=3D80=3D9D, =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cfai[t]th=3DE2=3D80=3D9D <
>> >> ???.=3D20
>> >>=20
>> >> Now, can you tell me what=3DE2=3D80=3D99s going on with
>> >> =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cal[t]so=3DE2=3D80=3D9D?=3D20
>> >>=20
>> >> Similar case: in Florence, Alabama, and in Shelby, NC, I heard
>> >> this
>> >> pronunc=3D
>> >> iation of the 28th president=3DE2=3D80=3D99s surname:
>> >> =3DE2=3D80=3D9CWil[t]son=3DE2=3D80=3D9D.
>> >>=20
>> >> (Yes, the bowtie is nice, except that it gets Alpo stains when I
>> >> eat =
>> my
>> >> bre=3D
>> >> akfast.)
>> >>=20
>> >>=20
>> >>=20
>> >> On 3/2/16, 4:48 PM, "American Dialect Society on behalf of W
>> >> Brewer"
>> >> <ADS-L=3D
>> >> @LISTSERV.UGA.EDU on behalf of brewerwa at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> >>=20
>> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >> ------------------=3D
>> >> -----
>> >>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >>> Poster:       W Brewer <brewerwa at GMAIL.COM>
>> >>> Subject:      Re: Pronunciation of "faith" and "also" in parts of
>> >>> =
>> Alabama
>> >>=20
>> >>> =
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>> =3D
>> >> -----
>> >>>=20
>> >>> Well, looks like the dialectologists are hibernating, so this is
>> >>> my
>> >>> opportunity to consult my trusty old Arthur Bonstein handbook.
>> >>> RE: <faith> ~ <fai[t]th>:
>> >>> (1) Probably not an "excrescent [t]", that just grew in there as
>> >>> a
>> >>> homorganic interdental t, for some unknown reason.
>> >>> (2) Possibly, hypercorrection. Bronstein notes that "In careless
>> >>> or
>> >>> indistinct speech, the /t/ or /d/ may be lost, especially when
>> >>> final =
>> or in
>> >>> certain clusters, as in ... <eighth, width, breadth> ..." Note
>> >>> how
>> >>> <eight+th> is even written <eighth>, but some people may feel it
>> >>> =
>> sounds
>> >>> better to stick the plosive <t> back in; and, not only that, add
>> >>> one =
>> into
>> >>> <faith> for good measure. Can't think of any better parallels =
>> offhand.
>> >>> Cute bow tie, Charlie.
>> >>>=20
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >=20
>> >=20
>> >=20
>> > --=20
>> > *Tired? There's a nap for that.*
>> >=20
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