[Ads-l] Latent anti-Semitism [Was: Provenance of /Or/ > [ar] / __@ ?]

Fri Oct 7 15:59:25 UTC 2016

Pinging on both what you said about death and about Yiddish/Jewish, have
y'all heard about the Seinfeld script that was written a couple of months
ago? The show is long over, but Billy Domineau, a comedian, wondered what a
9/11-themed Seinfeld episode would look like. So he wrote it. And like the
splitsider article says, it's pitch-perfect.

article:
http://splitsider.com/2016/08/this-seinfeld-911-spec-script-is-insane-and-incredible/

direct link to PDF of script:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B50l484pDaMobXI2Wk5CX0NMbkU/view

Tim

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- - - - - - - - - - -
Read excerpts from the forthcoming *Dictionary of Christianese
<http://www.dictionaryofchristianese.com/>*

On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> >  that exact same kind of flippant cleverness to bear on any topic he
> dilated on.
>
> Because it's virtually the norm in pop journalism for any topic but racism,
> death, and disease.
>
> I mean, you gotta keep 'em interested, right?
>
> JL
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Tim Stewart <timoteostewart1977 at gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Here are the titles of D-n N------z's most recent 30 articles on Atlas
> > Obscura:
> >
> > Do Not Eat, Touch, Or Even Inhale the Air Around the Manchineel Tree
> > Everything You Know About Mole Sauce Is A Lie
> > How Dirt Houses Became Beloved By The Tiny House Movement
> > How To Drink Vodka Like a Russian
> > I Asked Leading Entomologists: 'What’s The Smartest Bug In The World?'
> > In A City Of Murals, The Simplest One Stands Out
> > Inside Ali Sadr Cave.
> > Is There a Place in America Where People Speak Without Accents?
> > Let Them Eat Corn! The New Rules of Passover
> > Meet Waterbod, the David Attenborough Of Instagram
> > Philadelphia's Trinity Houses are the Original Tiny Houses
> > Private Eyes Tell Us About Digging Through People's Trash
> > The Boiling River
> > The Center of the Universe, Tulsa OK
> > The Delightful Perversity of Québec's Catholic Swears
> > The dugouts in July 2010, before they were destroyed
> > The Enduring Mystery Of 'Jawn', Philadelphia's All-Purpose Noun
> > The Fascinating Local Color from Illegal NBA Playoff Streams
> > The Story Behind the Incredible Obstacle Course Video That Went Viral
> > The Strange World of Japanese Hangover Cures
> > There's Only One State Where You Can Marry Without God as a Witness
> > We are sinners all.
> > What Do You Call the Corner Store?
> > What It's Like to Run a Fan Site For the Arguably Worst Team in NBA
> History
> > What's Going On with the Way Canadians Say ‘About'?
> > Why Do We Even Have Toes?
> > Why It's So Hard to Find, Let Alone Save, the World's Cutest Porpoise
> > Why Linguists are Fascinated by the American Jewish Accent
> > Why Northerners Think All Southerners Have One Accent
> > Yu's take on Hong Kong's high rises.
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - -
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Read excerpts from the forthcoming *Dictionary of Christianese
> > <http://www.dictionaryofchristianese.com/>*
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Tim Stewart <
> timoteostewart1977 at gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I had a different takeaway. Rather than interpreting *Yoda-like*,
> > *mashup*,
> > > and *-ish* as latent anti-Semitisms, I took those as attempts by the
> > > article writer to make the subject matter (Yiddish) appeal to a
> > millennial
> > > audience. My hypothesis is that the article writer would bring that
> exact
> > > same kind of flippant cleverness to bear on any topic he dilated on.
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - -
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > Read excerpts from the forthcoming *Dictionary of Christianese
> > > <http://www.dictionaryofchristianese.com/>*
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 8:47 AM, Margaret Winters <mewinters at wayne.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I agree with Joel's assesment of the quotes he cites.  I do the
> > >> occasional lecture on Yiddish to Detroit area Jewish groups (I learned
> > it
> > >> as a child both at home and through second language study and have to
> > some
> > >> extent -- not enough! -- kept it up).  One of the points I make (yes,
> to
> > >> Jewish groups) is that it isn't cute, nostalgic, meant just for
> jokes, a
> > >> debased dialect of something else, but is a living language of its own
> > with
> > >> a history, literature, culture of its own!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> sigh,
> > >>
> > >> Margaret
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----------------------------
> > >> MARGARET E WINTERS
> > >> On Leave
> > >> Office of the Provost
> > >> Wayne State University
> > >> Detroit, MI  48202
> > >>
> > >> mewinters at wayne.edu
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> > >> Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET>
> > >> Sent: Friday, October 7, 2016 8:44 AM
> > >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > >> Subject: Re: Latent anti-Semitism [Was: Provenance of /Or/ > [ar] /
> __@
> > ?]
> > >>
> > >> This of course is not a criticism of Neal.
> > >>
> > >> I find a latent and repellent anti-Semitism in the Atlas Obscura
> > article,
> > >> in it's characterizations of "the American Jewish Accent" --
> > >>
> > >> weird
> > >>
> > >> bizarre
> > >>
> > >> Ladino as a "mashup"  -- what is "standard" English but a mashup of
> > other
> > >> languages?
> > >>
> > >> The use of "-ish", in "Germanicish" and Yeshivish", as though these
> > >> dialects are somehow substandard versions of German or of the speech
> of
> > >> Jews educated in "the schools for the organized study of Jewish holy
> > texts".
> > >>
> > >> The use of Yoda-like" has a similarly-disparaging undertone.
> > >>
> > >> The first sentence of the last paragraph seems to extend the disdain
> to
> > >> all minorities, as though their speech of English too is substandard.
> > >>
> > >> Finally, the article concludes "It's messy and confusing and pulls
> > >> elements from all over the world. But it’s pretty great for telling
> > jokes."
> > >> More slurs.  "Great for telling jokes"!  As if that's all it's good
> for.
> > >> Is (stereotypical) Italian, or Irish, or Indian, or ... accent great
> for
> > >> telling jokes, and not much else, such as being understood in one's
> > >> community?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Joel
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>       From: Neal Whitman <nwhitman at AMERITECH.NET>
> > >>  To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > >>  Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 11:38 PM
> > >>  Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Provenance of /Or/ > [ar] / __@ ?
> > >>
> > >> Relevant to this thread from 2012 (hat tip to LSA for sharing on
> > >> Facebook):
> > >>
> > >> http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/why-linguists-are-fasci
> > >> nated-by-the-american-jewish-accent
> > >> [http://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/34854/image.jpg]<
> > >> http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/why-linguists-are-
> > fascinated-by-the-
> > >> american-jewish-accent>
> > >>
> > >> Why Linguists are Fascinated by the American Jewish Accent<
> > >> http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/why-linguists-are-
> > fascinated-by-the-
> > >> american-jewish-accent>
> > >> www.atlasobscura.com
> > >> Between 1880 and World War I, a wave of Eastern European Jewish
> > >> immigrants crashed on America’s shores. They spoke Yiddish, and then
> > >> English, with a special tone, a ...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 11/17/2012 3:02 PM, Paul Johnston wrote:
> > >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >> -----------------------
> > >> > Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >> > Poster:      Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
> > >> > Subject:      Re: Provenance of /Or/ > [ar] / __@ ?
> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> -------------------
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm not sure what my original pattern was, though my parents (NYC
> > born)
> > >> had [a] in nearly all or all words in this set intervocalically.  I,
> > >> however, have [O] in them all, despite living a good deal of my
> > childhood
> > >> in the NY/NJ suburbs.  I could have picked it up in Chicago, where I
> > lived
> > >> from 6-14.  However, my high school years were in Morristown, in
> Morris
> > >> County, NJ, not far from the Oranges, and my birthplace was a stone's
> > throw
> > >> from Florida,NY (not the state)in Orange County, so there's plenty of
> > words
> > >> there in the classthat would come up all the time.  My memory may be
> > >> playing tricks on me but my impression was that local Morristonians
> had
> > [O]
> > >> like me, but the incomers from NY
> > >> > and farther toward the Hudson had [a] (in my day, distributing very
> > >> much like rhoticity).  Monroe, NY was also in the [a] area.  But if
> > >> Philadelphia also has [a], shouldn't all New Jersey have it too?  Am I
> > >> projecting my Illinois pronunciation on others?
> > >> >
> > >> > What I remember, too, is Morristonians using [O] and contrasting it
> > >> strongly with southern NJ's Moorestown [mu:rztaUn], which was always
> > being
> > >> confused with our place.  We'd never use [O] in the latter.
> > >> >
> > >> > Throughout, NORTH =FORCE for all areas that I've lived in in this
> > >> country.
> > >> >
> > >> > By the way, what's the Eastern New England pattern for <orV>, [a] or
> > >> [É’]?  The last one would equal NORTH in many places there, with NORTH
> > and
> > >> FORCE being different.  Would Boston and Providence be different?
> > >> >
> > >> > Paul Johnston
> > >> > On Nov 17, 2012, at 12:49 PM, Joel S. Berson wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >> -----------------------
> > >> >> Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >> >> Poster:      "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > >> >> Subject:      Re: Provenance of /Or/ > [ar] / __@ ?
> > >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> -------------------
> > >> >>
> > >> >> At 11/17/2012 01:36 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
> > >> >>> On Nov 16, 2012, at 6:24 PM, Neal Whitman wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>> I'm sure this has been analyzed somewhere at some point, but I
> > >> >>> don't know where.
> > >> >>>> What is the dialect that has /O/ lowering to [a] in a stressed
> > >> >>> vowel preceding
> > >> >>>> /r/ and an unstressed vowel? In other words, the dialect that
> > >> pronounces
> > >> >>>> "forest" as "farrest," "Florida" as "Flarrida", "Oregon" as
> > >> "Ahregun,"
> > >> >>>> "horrible" etc. as "harrible" etc., "authority" as "autharity",
> > >> >>> but still has
> > >> >>>> [O] in "fort", "lore," etc.? What is this realization called?
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>> It's what I grew up with in NYC,
> > >> >> Me too.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>> although I've shifted over to [O] most of the time for these; I
> > >> >>> suspect I go back and forth (on "Florida", "orange", "forest")
> even
> > >> >>> though I think of myself as an open-o employer for these (the
> first
> > >> >>> group, that is; I've never varied on [O] for "fort" or "lore").  I
> > >> >>> think of "AH-rinj" as the locus classicus, but as I recall it was
> > >> >>> getting mocked for my [a] in "corridor" as a freshman in Rochester
> > >> >>> that led to my abandoning my native vowels in this frame.  I'm
> sure
> > >> >>> I never say "flarrist", but I probably did before the fall of
> 1961.
> > >> >> Except my vacillations and shifts are different from
> > >> >> Larry's.  (Perhaps because he stayed close, in New Haven, while I
> > >> >> moved further (farther?), to Boston.)  For example, I'm sure I
> seldom
> > >> >> say "florist" but mostly "flarrist".  But I say "floral", not
> > >> "flarral".
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Joel
> > >> >>
> > >> >>> LH
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>> I've been vaguely aware of it for many years, but have begun to
> > >> >>> notice it more,
> > >> >>>> especially among certain NPR speakers. I even heard one guy on
> > >> >>> Planet Money talk
> > >> >>>> about a "flarrist" (florist), which is right in line with the
> > >> phonetic
> > >> >>>> environment I described, but was still a new pronunciation to me.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Neal
> > >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >> American Dialect Society<http://www.americandialect.org/>
> > >> www.americandialect.org
> > >> The American Dialect Society, founded in 1889, is dedicated to the
> study
> > >> of the English language in North America, and of other languages, or
> > >> dialects of other ...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >> American Dialect Society<http://www.americandialect.org/>
> > >> www.americandialect.org
> > >> The American Dialect Society, founded in 1889, is dedicated to the
> study
> > >> of the English language in North America, and of other languages, or
> > >> dialects of other ...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Dr. Neal Whitman
> > >> Lecturer, ESL Composition
> > >> School of Teaching and Learning
> > >> College of Education and Human Ecology
> > >> Arps Hall
> > >> 1945 North High Street
> > >> whitman.11 at osu.edu
> > >> (614) 260-1622
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >> American Dialect Society<http://www.americandialect.org/>
> > >> www.americandialect.org
> > >> The American Dialect Society, founded in 1889, is dedicated to the
> study
> > >> of the English language in North America, and of other languages, or
> > >> dialects of other ...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >> American Dialect Society<http://www.americandialect.org/>
> > >> www.americandialect.org
> > >> The American Dialect Society, founded in 1889, is dedicated to the
> study
> > >> of the English language in North America, and of other languages, or
> > >> dialects of other ...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

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