[Ads-l] "slave"

[Z Rice]

Joel Berson Wrote: "Many if not most enslaved blacks, as well as free
blacks, did consider themselves Americans. They wanted to stay, and to
succeed, in in the United States. Witness the failure of the ante-bellum
"colonization movement", aimed at solving racial problems by inducing
blacks to remove back to Africa, and thus making America all-white. Few
blacks supported it."

Our ancestors did not support the ACS and its manipulative,
quasi-benevolent removal of our ancestors to African shores because our
ancestors knew full well that it was a an effort to deliberately remove the
largest abolitionist population in the United States - the "free"
population (they had no interest in removing the enslaved population, and
many enslavers actively supported the ACS and took part in it directly as
it served their economic interests) - so that they could continue
enslavement and barbarism without resistance from the "free" population.

Our ancestors did not want to just "stay, and to succeed, in in the United
States", as you stated earlier. This is revisionist history and you are
projecting your own values and rhetoric onto our ancestors.

Furthermore, your statement about "many" or "most" considering themselves
American is outrageous. I'm curious as to what qualifies you to speak for
our ancestors. Are you privy to our collective oral tradition and oral
history? Are you a part of the group in question? I'm assuming that you're
not because your earlier comment is highly ill-informed.

Do you see yourself as naturally pre-disposed to speak for the American
Indian or the "insert-other-group-here"? What makes you think that you're
naturally pre-disposed to speak for us and know our thoughts? Only we know
that and only we can speak for our ancestors. That is what is appropriate.




On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Joel Berson <berson at att.net> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Re: "slave"
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
>
> Many if not most enslaved blacks, as well as free blacks, did consider
> them=
> selves Americans.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 They wanted to stay, and to succeed,
> in=
>  in the United States.=C2=A0 Witness the failure of the ante-bellum
> "coloni=
> zation movement", aimed at solving racial problems by inducing blacks to
> re=
> move back to Africa, and thus making America all-white.=C2=A0 Few blacks
> su=
> pported it.
>
> The earliest (current) quotation in the OED for "African-American" is from
> =
> what I take to be the writing of a black, near the end of the Revolution.=
> =C2=A0 The author is proud to call himself an African-American, and
> praises=
>  the Revolution:
>
> 1782=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=98An African American=E2=80=99 Serm. on Capture
> Ld.=
>  Cornwallis p. iii,=C2=A0=C2=A0 That the ruler of the universe may crown
> wi=
> th success the cause of freedom, and speedily relieve your bleeding
> country=
> , is the hearty wish of an African American.
>
> (Thee problem with an analogy with "Chinese" is that it is a "racial"
> chara=
> cterization as well as ethnic or political.)
>
> Joel
>
>       From: Flourish Klink <flourish.klink at GMAIL.COM>
>  To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=20
>  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 11:54 AM
>  Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "slave"
>   =20
> Separate from the historical perspective, I would be shocked if the
> enslaved people in question considered themselves Americans. (If someone
> kidnapped me, transported me overseas to China and set me to work in a
> factory, I certainly wouldn't consider myself Chinese!)
>
> F
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:02 AM Joel Berson <berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > Sali,
> >
> > Do you consider 1814, when "The Star-Spangled Banner" was written, as
> > being during the colonial period of the US?=C2=A0 A very Anglo-philic
> sta=
> nce,
> > just what the British were still believing then?=C2=A0 :-)=C2=A0 I would
> =
> say there
> > were "enslaved African-Americans" in 1814.
> >
> > Joel
> >
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Salikoko S. Mufwene <s-mufwene at UCHICAGO.EDU>
> >=C2=A0 To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >=C2=A0 Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 9:51 AM
> >=C2=A0 Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "slave"
> >
> > Just a minor correction, JL. From a historical perspective, there were
> > enslaved Africans, not enslaved African Americans during the colonial
> > history of the US or of the 13 English colonies. During that time the
> > class of Americans was very restricted, even some Europeans did not
> > count as Americans.
> >
> > Sali.
> >
> > On 8/31/2016 7:06 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > > Former tennis star James Blake has explained to CNN that "The
> > Star-Spangled
> > > Banner" is "a song that advocates the killing of slaves."
> > >
> > > The "hireling and slave" in the song, of course, are not enslaved
> > > African-Americans but redcoats, Hessian mercenaries, and cringing
> Torie=
> s.
> > >
> > > Proof? Read the lyrics.
> > >
> > > Of course, as D----d T---p has demonstrated, words don't mean much
> > anymore.
> > >
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> >
> > --
> > **********************************************************
> > Salikoko S. Mufwene=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
> =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 s-mufwene at uchicago.edu
> > The Frank J. McLoraine Distinguished Service Professor of Linguistics and
> > the College
> > Professor, Committee on Evolutionary Biology
> > Professor, Committee on the Conceptual & Historical Studies of Science
> > University of Chicago=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
> =C2=
> =A0 =C2=A0 773-702-8531; FAX 773-834-0924
> > Department of Linguistics
> > 1115 East 58th Street
> > Chicago, IL 60637, USA
> > http://mufwene.uchicago.edu/
> > **********************************************************
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
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>
>
>   =20
>
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