[Ads-l] Where are the PC police?
Robin Hamilton
robin.hamilton3 at VIRGINMEDIA.COM
Sun Sep 18 21:57:14 UTC 2016
Ooops (blushes and hangs his head in shame).
I stand properly corrected, Bill, and bow humbly to your superior knowledge and
intellect and ... whatever (as the Frog would say). :-)
But see my reply to your following post.
Robin
>
> On 18 September 2016 at 22:21 W Brewer <brewerwa at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
>
> RH: << I could dig out the Arne-Thomson number of the motif if anyone's
> interested. >>
> WB: Tsk-tsk-tsk. Aarne-Thompson **tale type** 2033; Thompson **motif**
> 2033. Aarne-Thompson-Uther tale type 2033 "The Sky is Falling".
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 10:31 PM, Robin Hamilton <
> robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com> wrote:
>
> > That Wikipedia entry sure is one impressive piece of work and no
> > mistake,
> > though
> > I'd tend to describe at least some of the other versions as "analogues"
> > rather
> > than "sources".
> >
> > Only two things of substance I'd want to add. One is that, as part of
> > the
> > British line of development, there's a lovely short novel called _The
> > Conceited
> > Pig_ published anonymously (circa 1848). This can be found (among other
> > places)
> > here (with further details below my sig.):
> >
> >
> > http://digital.nls.uk/early-gaelic-book-collections/
> > pageturner.cfm?id=78655893&mode=transcription
> > http://digital.nls.uk/early-gaelic-book-collections/
> > pageturner.cfm?id=78655893&mode=transcription
> >
> > This is well worth reading (it's actually to my mind rather funny) and,
> > as
> > is
> > characteristic of the British line of development, much less moralistic
> > than
> > Chandler.
> >
> > The other point is that the printed version of _The Remarkable Story of
> > Chicken
> > Little_ is based on a longer manuscript version which only reappeared in
> > 1935.
> > Again, further details below.
> >
> > Robin.
> >
> > ________________
> >
> > On a Conceited Pig called Wilbur:
> >
> >
> > << Chambers’ 1842 version was reprinted as part of his collected works
> > in
> > 1847,
> > and again in 1870. As early as the late 1840s, less than six years after
> > its
> > first appearance, the narrative was adapted and expanded as _The
> > Conceited
> > Pig_
> > (pre-1848?), which introduced a pig named Wilbur. The anonymous author
> > continued
> > with _Miss Peck’s Adventures_ (London, 1848), featuring a sour and
> > spinsterish
> > hen named Miss Peck.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > NOTE: _The Conceited Pig_ (London, 1852) – Probably pre-1848. While this
> > is
> > the earliest text I’ve been able to see, there are several books listed
> > by
> > Worldcat as published in 1848, including an edition of _Miss Peck’s
> > Adventures_,
> > which read, “by the author of The Conceited Pig.”]
> >
> > In an advert in Rev. W.B.Flower, _Try Again_ (1848), _Miss Peck’s
> > Adventures_ is
> > described as in preparation, and about to be issued, so _The Conceited
> > Pig_ was
> > almost certainly printed before 1848.
> >
> > The novelist Charlotte E. Yonge commented approvingly on this tale,
> > comparing it
> > favourably to Halliwell’s version and suggested that it was developed
> > from
> > the
> > Scottish version provided by Chambers. >>
> >
> > _________
> >
> > On the Earlier Chandler Version
> >
> > Herbert H. Hosmer, Jr. (ed.,), _The Remarkable History of Chicken
> > Little,
> > 1840-1940 [by] John Greene Chandler_ (Privately printed at The College
> > Press,
> > South Lancaster, Massachusetts, 1941).
> >
> > This provides a full transcription of Chandler's manuscript, and some
> > details of
> > Chandler's life. The commentary is tooth-numbingly saccharine, and the
> > manuscript itself is even more moralistic than the shorter version, but
> > Hosmer
> > does include material not found anywhere else, with regard to Chandler's
> > biography.
> >
> > R.
> >
> > ___________________________
> >
> > >
> > > On 18 September 2016 at 11:56 "Shapiro, Fred" <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Wikipedia has a thorough discussion of the Danish and American
> > sources for
> > > Chicken Little.
> > >
> > >
> > > By coincidence, my wife was very recently checking the Yale copy of
> > the
> > > 1840 publication with the first use of "Chicken Little" for the OED.
> > >
> > >
> > > Fred Shapiro
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf
> > of Robin
> > > Hamilton <robin.hamilton3 at VIRGINMEDIA.COM>
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 12:50 AM
> > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: Where are the PC police?
> > >
> > > Damn! I totally forgot this till now, as I came on it well after I'd
> > done
> > > most
> > > of what work I did in this area:
> > >
> > > Katherine M. Briggs, _A Dictionary of British Folk-Tales_, Part A
> > Folk
> > > Narratives Vol. 2 (of a total of 4 volumes):
> > >
> > > pp.515 ff. for Chicken-Licken and derived/related texts
> > >
> > > pp.531 ff. for The Hen and Her Fellow-Travellers and derived/related
> > texts
> > >
> > > A much more reliable text than Ashliman, where they overlap, but not
> > I
> > > think
> > > available as easily. Note also that it's _British_ Folk-Tales, so no
> > John
> > > Greene Chandler or Joel Chandler Harris.
> > >
> > > (Just pulled that from my shelves, where it sits above and slightly
> > to the
> > > left
> > > of the only two volumes of HDAS that OUP will allow us to read.
> > Phoey!!!!)
> > >
> > > Robin
> > >
> > > _____________________________
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On 18 September 2016 at 05:30 Robin Hamilton
> > > > <robin.hamilton3 at VIRGINMEDIA.COM> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There's this, for a complete text:
> > > >
> > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__
> > archive.org_stream_remarkablestoryo00bostiala-
> > 23page_n0_mode_2up&d=CwICaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> > sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
> > ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=_8paVknT-
> > IfJo4L_WkITmmzYVozR_xucXTc2rpvjvYo&e=
> > > >
> > > > It doesn't show up on an obvious google (or internal Internet
> > Archive)
> > > > search,
> > > > as John Greene Chandler's name has been removed in the course of
> > > > (various?)
> > > > reprinting(s), but you can get to it via the title.
> > > >
> > > > Not the original 1840 edition, where the illustrations are in
> > colour,
> > > > but
> > > > as far
> > > > as I can make out, otherwise identical.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not absolutely sure, as I've never managed to get my eyes near
> > a
> > > > proper
> > > > first edition to check it against, but probably good enough for
> > > > government
> > > > work.
> > > >
> > > > (Thinking about it, I'm not even absolutely sure that the
> > illustrations
> > > > originally *were* in colour. I've seen images like that, but they
> > may
> > > > have
> > > > been
> > > > coloured after the fact.)
> > > >
> > > > Actually, comparing the text from the link above, with the images
> > Garson
> > > > links
> > > > to below, they seem (a) to be, with the exception that Chandler's
> > name
> > > > is
> > > > obliterated from the cover of the reprint, identical, and (b) to my
> > > > untrained
> > > > eye, the colours in the americanantiquarian images look as if they
> > were
> > > > hand-painted onto/into an originally penny-plain text.
> > > >
> > > > Which is what would more likely be found at a country fair, which
> > was
> > > > where
> > > > Chandler sold it first.
> > > >
> > > > Robin
> > > >
> > > > (Who unlike Garson, managed to totally misremember the date. With
> > the
> > > > correct
> > > > date of 1840, Chandler beats the first printing of the Scottish
> > version
> > > > by
> > > > two
> > > > years, and takes the crown. More, possibly, if the longer
> > [abominably
> > > > prolix]
> > > > MS version which lies behind the printed text was written
> > substantially
> > > > earlier.)
> > > >
> > > > Incidentally, there's a raft of versions, including the 1849
> > > > Halliwell-Phillipps
> > > > one, here:
> > > >
> > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> > pitt.edu_-7Edash_type2033.html-23chambers1841&d=CwICaQ&
> > c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
> > ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=e8yA-
> > qifbY4ROK1RmKzb7_R3FHgTy2-8l0C7xQuS-5w&e=
> > > >
> > > > The Scottish version should [but doesn't] carry a health-warning.
> > It's,
> > > > to
> > > > put
> > > > it mildly, "translated" into English. On the whole, I really like
> > > > Ashliman's
> > > > site, both here and beyond the issue at hand, but in that instance
> > ...
> > > > words
> > > > fail me. :-(
> > > >
> > > > R.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 18 September 2016 at 04:14 ADSGarson O'Toole
> > > > > <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Back in 2010 I mentioned that "Google Books contains a document
> > titled
> > > > > 'Remarkable Story of Chicken Little' by John Greene Chandler
> > dated
> > > > > 1840 but it cannot be examined because there is 'No preview
> > > > > available'."
> > > > >
> > > > > Robin just sent me (off-list) some additional bibliographical
> > data
> > > > > about this 1840 edition.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, I see that American Antiquarian Society based in Worcester,
> > > > > Massachusetts has an "extremely rare first edition" from 1840,
> > and
> > > > > they have posted scans of a few pages.
> > > > >
> > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> > americanantiquarian.org_Exhibitions_View_7_fig7-5F7.htm&d=CwICaQ&c=-
> > dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
> > ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=XBgZExdSQO-
> > CcjNdGOCSi3I0ZdznrnHACEhTEae32Nc&e=
> > > > >
> > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> > americanantiquarian.org_Exhibitions_Inpursuit_case8_
> > case8-5F11.htm&d=CwICaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> > sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
> > ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=eLm_
> > xRj5RmQLFdIQQ9CfqHVWwEnm8_kR4-d6mbpq9HQ&e=
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a downloadable PDF at the second link that contains a
> > few
> > > > > pages. Here is the story text on the pages. Please double-check
> > for
> > > > > errors. The main plot event: A leaf fell on the tail of Chicken
> > > > > Little.
> > > > >
> > > > > [Begin text of page 1]
> > > > > Did you ever hear of Chicken Little, how she disturbed a whole
> > > > > neighborhood by her foolish alarm?
> > > > > [End text]
> > > > >
> > > > > [Begin text of page 2]
> > > > > Well, Chicken Little was running about in a gentleman's garden,
> > where
> > > > > she had no business to be: she ran under a rose-bush, and a leaf
> > fell
> > > > > on her tail; so she was dreadfully frightened, and ran away to
> > Hen
> > > > > Pen.
> > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > >
> > > > > Page 3 and subsequent pages are not displayed on the website of
> > the
> > > > > American Antiquarian Society. The text below is from a later
> > section
> > > > > of the story. It contains the key phrase "the sky is falling".
> > This
> > > > > text was displayed in the back cover, I think.
> > > > >
> > > > > [Begin text (located on back cover, I think)]
> > > > > "O Duck Luck!" says Hen Pen, "the sky is falling." "How do you
> > know
> > > > > it?" says Duck Luck. "Chicken Little told me." "Chicken Little,
> > how do
> > > > > you know it?" "O, I saw it with my eyes, I heard it with my
> > ears, and
> > > > > part of it fell on my tail. O, come, let us run!"
> > > > > [End text]
> > > > >
> > > > > Garson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > The American Dialect Society -
> > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> > americandialect.org&d=CwICaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> > sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
> > ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=FtZ56OeK45vi_t-ZAqegYSs2_C_
> > VPDJSE46hU05RBYU&e=
> > > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society -
> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> > americandialect.org&d=CwICaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=
> > sRkhHMQo6W5Ird1lkQFqb23bCfSHAR2XjUSUG53db5M&m=
> > ZeZFnPBjToq6EJOV76xtJTSEU19N4CbA9hE-8KQr-hE&s=FtZ56OeK45vi_t-ZAqegYSs2_C_
> > VPDJSE46hU05RBYU&e=
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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