[Ads-l] Adage: Traduttori traditori (Translators, traitors)

[ADSGarson O'Toole]

Laurence Horn wrote:
> OK, QI and other sleuths—isn’t this, as I assumed, originally from the
> Italian:  traduttore, traditore?  Or is the Spanish version (which I had
> never previously encountered) earlier?  At least we know it didn’t start
> out in English (or French).  But, given the plural forms this isn’t actually
> mainstream Spanish anyway, right?

"The Concise Columbia Dictionary of Quotations" presents an Italian
version of the saying without an attribution or date.

[ref] 1989, The Concise Columbia Dictionary of Quotations by Robert
Andrews, Topic: Translation, Quote Page 267, Columbia University
Press, New York. (Verified with scans)[/ref]

[Begin excerpt]
Translation

Traduttori, traditori.
Translators, traitors.
Italian proverb
[End excerpt]

I only searched in Google Books, and I do not know how many Italian
books are indexed.

The adage appears in the 1754 commentary written by "M. Coste" about
one of Montaigne's essays. The commentary is in French, but the adage
"Traduttori traditori" is given in Italian.

Year: 1754 (M.DCC.LIV)
Title: Essais de Montaigne: Avec les Notes de M. Coste
Volume: 4
Quote Page 113
Publisher: Chez Jean Nourse & Vaillant, a Londres

https://books.google.com/books?id=JaYDAAAAQAAJ&q=traduttori#v=snippet&

[Begin excerpt]
C'est à quoi n'ont jamais pensé certains beaux-esprits, qui croient
faire merveille d'anéantir nos vieux Auteurs en les traduisant en beau
François moderne, (le plus moderne est toûjours le plus beau)
Traduttori traditori, qu'on pourroit comparer à des Peintres
médiocres, qui après avoir copié les tableaux de Raphaël, de Paul
Veronese, du Titien, &c. jetteroient au feu ces divins originaux.
[End excerpt]

Garson


On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
> OK, QI and other sleuths—isn’t this, as I assumed, originally from the Italian:  traduttore, traditore?  Or is the Spanish version (which I had never previously encountered) earlier?  At least we know it didn’t start out in English (or French).  But, given the plural forms this isn’t actually mainstream Spanish anyway, right?
>
> LH
>
>> On Apr 2, 2017, at 1:23 PM, Dave Hause <dwhause at CABLEMO.NET> wrote:
>>
>> Of course, labels aren't the only place.  Many years ago, my dual-citizenship Venezuelan-Expat-American roommate taught me "Tradutore son traidore." Translators are traitors.
>> Dave Hause
>> -----Original Message----- From: Mark Mandel
>> Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 11:28 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: mistranslation?
>>
>> I sometimes see jaw-dropping mistranslations on labels, where the original
>> English says one thing and another language says something ridiculously
>> different, apparently translated either by machine or by careless lookup in
>> a dictionary or by "Sure, I took ___ in high school, I can do that for
>> you." But before sending them in to *Consumer Reports'* "Selling It" page,
>> I want to confirm that they really are as bad as I think. Here's a French
>> example. (I have a Spanish one too, but I can't find it at the moment.)
>>
>> Eng-Fr, on a card of bag clips intended to keep your (e.g.) potato chips
>> enclosed and dry till you finish them:
>> *Hand wash recommended.*
>> Le lavage des mains est recommandé.
>> Does that mean, as I think it does, that you should wash your hands, rather
>> than that you should wash (the product) by hand? Should the translation be
>> "... aux mains ..."?
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> . <http://X-Clacks-Overhead.dw/GNU-Terry_Pratchett>  .
>> <http://www.gnuterrypratchett.com/>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org