[Ads-l] "Bullshit" ca1879

Fri Aug 18 02:06:54 UTC 2017

"the manure of the oxen, which ignites & burns readily"

Ah. Proud Mary.

On Aug 17, 2017 10:03 PM, "Laurence Horn" <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:

> On Aug 17, 2017, at 4:10 PM, Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU> wrote:
>
> So much for the idea that T. S. Eliot was the coiner of the word
"bullshit" ...
>
>
> Fred Shapiro

HDAS includes an earlier bracketed entries from the 19th c., well
antedating the OED's earliest cites, the second of which is actually (as
Jon noted) for “Slap Jack Billy and bull dung Tommy"; I suppose the
“bullsh-t” in the 1866 cite from W. H. Jackson’s diary is bracketed because
it looks as though it’s literally referring to bullshit (“the manure of the
oxen, which ignites & burns readily", not to the sense of the word that
turned philosopher Harry Frankfurt into an eponymous best seller.  Unless
Jackson was presupposing a pun (“stentorian tones” and all).

LH

>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Ben
Zimmer <bgzimmer at GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 12:46 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: "Bullshit" ca1879
>
> By searching on Jack's compatriot Slap Jack Bill, I was able to find this
> from 1879.
>
> ---
> Daily Gazette (Las Vegas, N.M.), Sep. 12, 1879, p. 1, col. 3
> Special Agent Adams came in from Denver yesterday and last night arrested
> B-- S-- Jack, Slap Jack Bill, both noted characters, and a man named Webb
> at a saloon on the east side on a charge of robbing the coach. The
evidence
> is strong.
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
newspapers.com_image_-3Fspot-3D13156773&d=DwIBaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=
fA3T4uAm2gJS6K8eux_g80UR5n-rtd2GpmRMO1hHScg&m=K9AIG7M9g2v3u87astlBAGB3tCsQPg
wKN9Ry772LdAQ&s=kEZau_x66HNWEXBY-K0UM1ocYEiFZTTYTyaDKgM6-NU&e=
> ---
>
> The Gazette's coverage of the arrest appeared in some other newspapers,
> with the nickname similarly expurgated.
>
> ---
> Weekly Republican (Phoenix, Ariz.), Sep. 24, 1879, p. 4, col. 1
> The men bearing the euphonious titles of B S Jack and Slap Jack Bill, the
> pride of the Pan Handle, are gamblers who came from Otero some weeks ago.
> They are originally from Texas and are classed as tough citizens.
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
newspapers.com_image_175607080_&d=DwIBaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=
fA3T4uAm2gJS6K8eux_g80UR5n-rtd2GpmRMO1hHScg&m=K9AIG7M9g2v3u87astlBAGB3tCsQPg
wKN9Ry772LdAQ&s=wn7_Di-qZA-44-NDr9PnQIio4zpjohWrdRuBw59B8Lg&e=
> ---
> Arizona Sentinel (Yuma, Ariz.) Sep. 27, 1879, p. 2, col. 2
> The Las Vegas Gazette gives an account of the capture of three mail
robbers
> called Webb, B.S. Jack and Slap Jack Bill. They have been taken to Santa
Fe
> for trial.
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
newspapers.com_image_42269032_&d=DwIBaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=
fA3T4uAm2gJS6K8eux_g80UR5n-rtd2GpmRMO1hHScg&m=K9AIG7M9g2v3u87astlBAGB3tCsQPg
wKN9Ry772LdAQ&s=yw7075TDXpO3uqLEhm8Z6wQLhjfs6VVlSxCjKTGmQBs&e=
> ---
>
> More from the Gazette in 1880:
>
> ---
> Daily Gazette (Las Vegas, N.M.), Feb. 10, 1880, p. 4, col. 2
> The mail robbers have been indicted and arraigned and all entered pleas of
> not guilty. They are John Pierce, alias B.S. Jack, William Nicholson alias
> Slap Jack Bill, Frank Cady and Jordan Webb.
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
newspapers.com_image_174603452_&d=DwIBaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=
fA3T4uAm2gJS6K8eux_g80UR5n-rtd2GpmRMO1hHScg&m=K9AIG7M9g2v3u87astlBAGB3tCsQPg
wKN9Ry772LdAQ&s=gR_jG7p3lyd2BXgW8uSFuvfuGkrI5GJgICpSHY3-B_M&e=
> ---
>
> In 1881, the Las Vegas Daily Optic gave his name as "Bull Shank Jack" and
> several other papers followed suit.
>
> ---
> The Times (Philadelphia, Pa.), May 2, 1881, p. 4, col. 2
> "Slap Jack Bill," "Fly Speck Sam" and "Bull Shank Jack" all came to Las
> Vegas about the time the railroad got here, and were soon run in the quay
> on the charge of train and coach robbery.
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
newspapers.com_image_53107273_&d=DwIBaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=
fA3T4uAm2gJS6K8eux_g80UR5n-rtd2GpmRMO1hHScg&m=K9AIG7M9g2v3u87astlBAGB3tCsQPg
wKN9Ry772LdAQ&s=1xoATeTjhUgZsbOL92QzVpllizw2KcwZJZcl-XMpsdI&e=
> ---
>
> (Can't find the original version of this in the Optic -- the OCR for it on
> NewspaperArchive is pretty terrible.)
>
> --bgz
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at yahoo.com
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> HDAS has a bracketed ref. to one "Bull Dung Billy" back in the Old West.
>>>
>>> Gary L. Roberts, however, author of the documented bio _Doc Holliday:
the
>>> Life and Legend_ (N.Y.: Wiley, 2006), p. 111, cites a John "Bullshit
Jack"
>>> Pierce as a stage-robber near Las Vegas, N.M., around 1880.
>>>
>>> Though buried among paragraph citations, Roberts seems to cite the _Las
>>> Vegas Daily Optic_, July 21, 1881.
>>>
>>
>> Following up on this long-forgotten thread... the Las Vegas Daily Optic
>> for 1881 is now available on NewspaperArchive, so I checked this out.
>> Roberts was actually citing the July 20, 1881 issue, but not about
>> "Bullshit Jack," unfortunately. Roberts quotes the Optic about how Doc
>> Holliday "crept through one of the many legal loop-holes that
characterized
>> Hoodoo Brown's judicial dispensation." "Bullshit Jack" (or rather "Bull
>> Shit Jack") happens to appear in the same paragraph in the Doc Holliday
>> bio, but is nowhere to be seen in the Optic.
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__
newspaperarchive.com_ben-2Dzimmer-2Dcrime-2Dclipping-
2Djul-2D20-2D1881-2D364704_&d=DwIBaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-
poQ&r=fA3T4uAm2gJS6K8eux_g80UR5n-rtd2GpmRMO1hHScg&m=
K9AIG7M9g2v3u87astlBAGB3tCsQPgwKN9Ry772LdAQ&s=ddvBdPBSDDZxvexMTTlu5hjW2n_
MuiELxN_mjVmy_ds&e=
>>
>> So the hunt continues for early newspaper appearances of "bullshit."
>> Nothing so far beats Bonnie Taylor-Blake's discovery of "bullshit" from
the
>> (Topeka, Kan.) Daily Commonwealth, Aug. 31, 1886, where it appears as a
>> possibly intentional typo for "ballast." More here:
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__
stronglang.wordpress.com_2015_01_02_when-2Dshit-2Dhits-
2Dthe-2Dnewspapers_&d=DwIBaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=
fA3T4uAm2gJS6K8eux_g80UR5n-rtd2GpmRMO1hHScg&m=K9AIG7M9g2v3u87astlBAGB3tCsQPg
wKN9Ry772LdAQ&s=WhnIbVppYtHxxBoOZBGkmX8akuFZK2HBE-RGQET1iGA&e=
>>
>> --bgz
>>
>>
>
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