[Ads-l] Pronunciation

Tue Feb 28 01:20:34 UTC 2017

Sled for me (Monroe, NY and Morristown, NJ)--in both places.  But my mother, born in "Harlem before it was Harlem" and raised in Far Rockaway, Queens to age 9 had sleigh.

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 8:17:24 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Pronunciation

---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Pronunciation
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just checked with my wife, who moved from NYC to Greenwich, CT at age 3; =
for her it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CFOUR-head=E2=80=9D (despite the Longfellow =
verse) and =E2=80=9Csled=E2=80=9D (never =E2=80=9Csleigh=E2=80=9D). =20

> On Feb 27, 2017, at 5:14 PM, Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET> wrote:
>=20
> Larry, isn't something missing in the second line of your =
transcription -- what did the little girl have right in the middle of =
her fahrid?  A hole?  Which is my faint memory, but but doesn't rhyme =
well enough for my taste.  Or a curl?  Which rhymes a bit better.  Or =
...?
>=20
> Joel
>=20
>=20
>      From: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=20
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 3:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Pronunciation
>=20
> I grew up saying =E2=80=9Cfar-head=E2=80=9D, which I later realized =
was a spelling pronunciation (sort of like =E2=80=9Cvictuals=E2=80=9D as =
VIK-chewals or =E2=80=9Cwaistcoat=E2=80=9D as=E2=80=A6waist-coat).  =
Probably a key factor in this realization was the rhyme (from the =
Child=E2=80=99s Garden of Verses?):
>=20
> There was a little girl
> Who had a little [curl/pearl/burl/squirrel]
> Right in the middle of her forehead
> When she was good=20
> She was very very good
> But when she bad she was horrid
>=20
> (Not =E2=80=9C...she was hoar-head=E2=80=9D, or worse)
>=20
> So then I relearned it as /'far at d/ (i.e. =E2=80=9Cfahrid" like Jon) =
and then again (when I switched the vowels in the relevant class of <or> =
words--=E2=80=9Ccorridor=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cforest=E2=80=9D, =
=E2=80=9Corange=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cmoral=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Chorrid", =
etc.--from /a/ to /O/) relearned it as /=E2=80=98fOr at d/ with open o. Now =
I=E2=80=99m not sure what I say=E2=80=94fahrid, fourid, or fore-head, or =
any and all of them randomly.   =20
>=20
> LH=20
>=20
>=20
>> On Feb 27, 2017, at 3:18 PM, Jonathan Lighter =
<wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>=20
>> LIke my NYC grandparents, I say "fahrid."
>>=20
>> JL
>>=20
>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 1:29 PM, Salikoko S. Mufwene =
<s-mufwene at uchicago.edu
>>> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Merriam Webster, 11th Collegiate edition, gives both pronunciations,
>>> although, like you, I have always heard that with "four." May this =
be
>>> related to the fact that in colonial English words such as /gone,
>>> going/,/oil, daughter/, and /lord/ were apparently (also) pronounced =
with
>>> the "far" vowel. Atlantic English creoles have been conservative in =
this
>>> regard.
>>>=20
>>> Sali.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 2/27/2017 11:41 AM, Shawnee Moon wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> I love both the nuances and the profound differences in =
pronunciation of
>>>> words, and I try to guess where people are from. I can tell bad =
faked
>>>> southern accents by actors, etc.
>>>>=20
>>>> There's a couple dialect pinpointing pages on the web that ask how =
you
>>>> pronounce words, and they have gotten my region and dialect =
influences
>>>> quite accurately, which was impressive to me.
>>>>=20
>>>> However, there's one word that I pronounce differently than anyone =
I know
>>>> other than immediate family:
>>>> Forehead.
>>>>=20
>>>> My family always pronounced it "far head" instead of "four head."
>>>> Recently I read that the pronunciation is Irish but very old.
>>>>=20
>>>> =46rom Bill Bryson's "Mother Tongue:"
>>>> "Often, however, the process has worked the other way around, with
>>>> pronunciation following spelling. We will see how the changes of =
spelling
>>>> in words like descrive/describe and parfet/perfect resulted in =
changes in
>>>> pronunciation, but many other words have been similarly influenced. =
Atone
>>>> was once pronounced =E2=80=9Cat one=E2=80=9D (the term from which =
it sprang), while
>>>> atonement was =E2=80=9Cat one-ment.=E2=80=9D Many people today =
pronounce the t in often
>>>> because it=E2=80=99s there (even though they would never think to =
do it with
>>>> soften, fasten, or hasten) and I suspect that a majority of people =
would be
>>>> surprised to learn that the correct (or at least historic) =
pronunciation of
>>>> waistcoat is =E2=80=9Cwess-kit,=E2=80=9D of victuals is =
=E2=80=9Cvittles,=E2=80=9D of forehead is =E2=80=9Cforrid,=E2=80=9D
>>>> and of comptroller is =E2=80=9Ccontroller=E2=80=9D (the one is =
simply a fancified spelling
>>>> of the other). In all of these the sway of spelling is gradually =
proving
>>>> irresistible."
>>>>=20
>>>> Has anyone ever heard anyone else pronounce forehead another way? =
I'm 55
>>>> and never have, and I've lived or been to nearly every state in the =
country.
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>=20
>>>> Mailed from the Moon =F0=9F=8C=9C
>>>>=20
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --
>>> **********************************************************
>>> Salikoko S. Mufwene                    s-mufwene at uchicago.edu
>>> The Frank J. McLoraine Distinguished Service Professor of =
Linguistics and
>>> the College
>>> Professor, Committee on Evolutionary Biology
>>> Professor, Committee on the Conceptual & Historical Studies of =
Science
>>> University of Chicago                  773-702-8531; FAX =
773-834-0924
>>> Department of Linguistics
>>> 1115 East 58th Street
>>> Chicago, IL 60637, USA
>>> http://mufwene.uchicago.edu/
>>> **********************************************************
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --=20
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the =
truth."
>>=20
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>=20
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org