[Ads-l] "Alternative facts" for EOTY

Mon Jan 23 20:40:22 UTC 2017

The vivacious Kellyanne explained some time last fall that " 'According to
The New York Times' is not a reliable source."

Presumably not compared to her boss, at any rate.

JL

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
wrote:

> > On Jan 23, 2017, at 1:57 PM, Baker, John <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM> wrote:
> >
> > For better or worse, I would say that a quote does not become unnotable
> simply because it is widely misunderstood.
> >
> > In any case, I think that Conway bears a measure of responsibility for
> expressing herself poorly.  If she meant that a better or more accurate
> understanding of the facts was being presented, she should have said that.
> Frankly, I don't think she was all that comfortable focusing on the factual
> accuracy of Spicer's statements.
> >
> >
> > John Baker
>
> “Who ya gonna believe, me or your own [lying] eyes?”
>
> —slightly adapted from Chico Marx in Duck Soup (apud YBOQ, p. 497)
>
> LH
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Shapiro, Fred
> > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 1:29 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: "Alternative facts" for EOTY
> >
> > My initial reaction when I heard that Kellyanne Conway had said
> something about "alternative facts" was that this was a remarkable quote
> that was well-positioned to become the notable quotation of the year, if
> not the century.  But upon studying the quote a little further, it seems
> very likely that Conway simply meant to say "more accurate facts than those
> being alleged by the anti-Trump media."  The larger idea that the new
> President and his administration are prone to uttering falsehoods may be
> spot-on, but the Conway quote, I think, is being distorted and that
> distortion will play into a narrative that the "mainstream media" are
> completely "out to get" the Trump administration.
> >
> >
> > Fred Shapiro
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Baker, John <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 11:27 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: "Alternative facts" for EOTY
> >
> > Well, what did Kellyanne Conway mean?    Here's the relevant passage,
> from https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
> nbcnews.com_meet-2Dthe-2Dpress_meet-2Dpress-2D01-2D22-2D17-2Dn710491-3A&d=
> CwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=NvsW-OhBbzxE92nK31T2wnmV21_
> Bx7bPCKzIsk5T4FQ&m=6zM9mVV0D59Dfet5QeF2ZKfxoiAyAe90C9cYyAYQjzE&s=
> 1zmRG2FJ0wx1W6Of2gVSMzVQvH6kFk8e6-jHsg77eG4&e=
> >
> >
> >
> > <<CHUCK TODD:
> >
> >
> >
> > You did not--
> >
> >
> >
> > KELLYANNE CONWAY:
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes I did.
> >
> >
> >
> > CHUCK TODD:
> >
> >
> >
> > --answer the question of why the president asked the White House press
> secretary to come out in front of the podium for the first time and utter a
> falsehood? Why did he do that? It undermines the credibility of the entire
> White House press office--
> >
> >
> >
> > KELLYANNE CONWAY:
> >
> >
> >
> > No it doesn't.
> >
> >
> >
> > CHUCK TODD:
> >
> >
> >
> > --on day one.
> >
> >
> >
> > KELLYANNE CONWAY:
> >
> >
> >
> > Don't be so overly dramatic about it, Chuck. What-- You're saying it's a
> falsehood. And they're giving Sean Spicer, our press secretary, gave
> alternative facts to that.>>
> >
> >
> >
> > (It will probably be easier to construe that last sentence if you
> understand it to contain dashes:  "And they're giving--Sean Spicer, our
> press secretary, gave--alternative facts to that.")
> >
> >
> >
> > Conway used the phrase again a little later in the program, although
> it's broken by an interruption from Todd:
> >
> >
> >
> > <<CHUCK TODD:
> >
> >
> >
> > Can you please answer the question? Why did he do this? You have not
> answered it.
> >
> >
> >
> > KELLYANNE CONWAY:
> >
> >
> >
> > I'll answer--
> >
> >
> >
> > CHUCK TODD:
> >
> >
> >
> > It's only one question.
> >
> >
> >
> > KELLYANNE CONWAY:
> >
> >
> >
> > --it this way. I'll answer it this way. Think about what you just said
> to your viewers. That's why we feel compelled to go out and clear the air
> and put alternative--
> >
> >
> >
> > CHUCK TODD:
> >
> >
> >
> > So it's a political tactic?
> >
> >
> >
> > KELLYANNE CONWAY:
> >
> >
> >
> > --facts out there.
> >
> >
> >
> > CHUCK TODD:
> >
> >
> >
> > It's a political tactic to come up with alternative facts and try to set
> up the press as your enemy?
> >
> >
> >
> > KELLYANNE CONWAY:
> >
> >
> >
> > No I didn't say that at all. And that's not why I'm here in this
> building. I'm here because of all the provable, quantifiable facts, because
> of the devastation and destruction in our schools with our health care, in
> our economy, with our small business owners.>>
> >
> >
> >
> > I can think of three things that Conway might have meant:
> >
> >
> >
> > 1.      She could have meant a sort of fantasy interpretation in which,
> shall we say, fictional facts are as valid as factual facts.  In other
> words, as Wilson suggests, alternative facts are simply lies.  That seems
> to be how the phrase is being taken generally, but it's an unlikely meaning
> for her to have.
> >
> >
> >
> > 2.      She could have meant that Spicer was presenting an alternative
> version of the facts that arguably was based on evidence as good or better
> than the evidence supporting the facts reported by the press.  This
> presumably is how Spicer himself would describe what he was doing (although
> the evidence for his "facts" does not stand up to scrutiny).
> >
> >
> >
> > 3.      She could have meant that Spicer was presenting other facts that
> are arguably more important than the facts reported by the press and that
> arguably cast those facts in a different light.  Conway's references to
> health care, the economy, and small business owners suggest that this may
> be what she thought she was saying.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regardless of what Conway actually meant, of course, the public is going
> to think that alternative facts = lies.  And since both Spicer and Conway
> seem to be trading in falsehoods, that's an understandable view.
> >
> >
> >
> > Whether or not "alternative facts" turns out to have legs as a WOTY
> candidate, I think we already have an early entry on Fred's list of the
> quotes of the year.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > John Baker
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Wilson Gray
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 9:50 PM
> >
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >
> > Subject: Re: "Alternative facts" for EOTY
> >
> >
> >
> > An alt-term for "lies," I take it.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> That's our refashioned Euphemism of the Year category.  See, inter
> >
> >> many alia, https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cnn.
> com_2017_01_22_politics_kellyanne-2Dconway-2D&d=CwIGaQ&c=-
> dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=NvsW-OhBbzxE92nK31T2wnmV21_Bx7bPCKzIsk5T4FQ&m=
> 6zM9mVV0D59Dfet5QeF2ZKfxoiAyAe90C9cYyAYQjzE&s=KACVR3k-_
> 8Hk5dzSt5fAD4MvlPd0lmMTVahVUjaxDfk&e=
> >
> >> alternative-facts/
> >
> >>
> >
> >> I'm afraid we'll get a whole bunch of strong candidates for this
> >
> >> category over the next 11+ months...
> >
> >>
> >
> >> LH
> >
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIGaQ&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=NvsW-OhBbzxE92nK31T2wnmV21_Bx7bPCKzIsk5T4FQ&m=
> 6zM9mVV0D59Dfet5QeF2ZKfxoiAyAe90C9cYyAYQjzE&s=ZP7J6qMVGz-
> iG1dmwt5UHwy5HqDiuF0lRcUyq2lcerE&e=
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > -Wilson
> >
> > -----
> >
> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >
> > -Mark Twain
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIGaQ&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=NvsW-OhBbzxE92nK31T2wnmV21_Bx7bPCKzIsk5T4FQ&m=
> 6zM9mVV0D59Dfet5QeF2ZKfxoiAyAe90C9cYyAYQjzE&s=ZP7J6qMVGz-
> iG1dmwt5UHwy5HqDiuF0lRcUyq2lcerE&e=
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIGaQ&
> c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=NvsW-OhBbzxE92nK31T2wnmV21_Bx7bPCKzIsk5T4FQ&m=
> 6zM9mVV0D59Dfet5QeF2ZKfxoiAyAe90C9cYyAYQjzE&s=ZP7J6qMVGz-
> iG1dmwt5UHwy5HqDiuF0lRcUyq2lcerE&e=
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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