[Ads-l] paddy wagon

[Jim Parish]

Although Mariah did release a song titled "The Wind"....

Jim Parish


On 7/29/2017 2:32 PM, Laurence Horn wrote:
> And no relation to the Mariah they call the wind, given the spelling. In fact, the original version of the song went “They call the wind Mariah with an <h> to distinguish it from the black paddy wagon”, but it didn’t scan.
>
> LH
>
>> On Jul 29, 2017, at 1:56 PM, Margaret Winters <mewinters at WAYNE.EDU> wrote:
>>
>> According to Wikipedia (s.v. black mariah):
>>
>> Black Maria, a slang term for a police van<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_van> used to transport prisoners, originally these were horse drawn and so could take some time to arrive at a crime scene. “Black Maria” was a famous racehorse of the day, born in Harlem USA in 1826. The name was sardonically applied to the police carriages (which were also usually colored black).
>>
>>
>> For what it is worth, the site World Wide Words (http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bla1.htm) likes this story too since the dates for the race horse and the van are properly in line.  They deny any suggestion about a woman named Mariah (black or white) and mention the song only to provide a guide to the pronunciation of the name (not to be confused with "Ave Maria").
>>
>> World Wide Words: Black Maria<http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bla1.htm>
>> www.worldwidewords.org
>> Where does the slang term 'Black Maria' for a police van come from?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------
>> MARGARET E WINTERS
>> Former Provost
>> Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics
>> Wayne State University
>> Detroit, MI  48202
>>
>> mewinters at wayne.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of paul johnson <paulzjoh at MTNHOME.COM>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 1:04 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: paddy wagon
>>
>> Was that the same Mariah that the wind was named?
>>
>>
>> On 7/29/2017 11:27 AM, Margaret Winters wrote:
>>> Geoff Nathan and I wondered about who Mariah was - it came up after this thread started, of course.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------
>>> MARGARET E WINTERS
>>> Former Provost
>>> Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics
>>> Wayne State University
>>> Detroit, MI  48202
>>>
>>> mewinters at wayne.edu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 8:40 PM
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: paddy wagon
>>>
>>> I'd be very surprised to see "paddy wagon" applied to a "police car," at
>>> least in the U.S.
>>>
>>> BTW, the predecessor of the "paddy wagon" was the "Black Mariah." A
>>> different "slur"?
>>>
>>> My grandparents used "paddy wagon," but both were familiar with "Black
>>> Mariah" from NYC in the '90s.
>>>
>>> (That's "1890s.")
>>>
>>> JL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> JL
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 7:13 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
>>> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In April 2015 Stephen Goranson initiated a discussion thread about
>>>> "paddy wagon" by presenting some intriguing citations:
>>>>
>>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2015-April/136543.html
>>>>
>>>> [Begin excerpt]
>>>> Though "paddy wagon" came to be associated with police vehicles, some
>>>> early uses associate it with wheelbarrows. OED (via Sam Clements) has
>>>> 1909 for "paddy wagon."
>>>> [End excerpt]
>>>>
>>>> I presented some complementary matches for "Paddy's wheelbarrow".
>>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2015-April/136625.html
>>>>
>>>> The OED has the following definition for "paddy" and notes that it can
>>>> be derogatory.
>>>>
>>>> [Begin excerpt]
>>>> paddy, n.2
>>>> 1. colloq.
>>>>   a. Usually in form Paddy. An Irishman. Frequently used as a
>>>> derogatory form of address.
>>>> 1714   in R. Steele Poetical Misc. 201   Poor Paddy swears his whole
>>>> Week's Gains away.
>>>> [End excerpt]
>>>>
>>>> Here is the OED information for "paddy wagon" which is listed under
>>>> "paddy, n.2".
>>>>
>>>> [Begin excerpt]
>>>> paddy wagon  n. slang (orig. U.S.) a police van or car.
>>>>
>>>> 1909   Chicago Tribune 12 Sept. v. 3/1   Don't it make you think of
>>>> the paddy wagon going down the street to pinch a gambling joint?
>>>> [End excerpt]
>>>>
>>>> Garson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Peter Reitan <pjreitan at hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Even if it's true that it's a reference to Irishmen, they were typically
>>>> hired as policemen who manned and operated the police wagons, so it's more
>>>> descriptive than derogatory. Not every race/ethnic reference is a slur.
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Wilson Gray<mailto:hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>> Sent: ‎7/‎28/‎2017 15:54
>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> Subject: Re: paddy wagon
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>> Subject:      Re: paddy wagon
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -------------------
>>>>> I wonder when Al discovered that it was a slur? I spent the greater
>>>> portion
>>>>> of my life thinking that _paddy-wagon_ < "patty-wagon" < "patrol-wagon,"
>>>>> with no reference to race or ethnicity. I've been familiar with _paddy_
>>>>> itself since the beginning of time, but only as a synonym of e.g. _fade_
>>>>> "white person" (as opposed to _shade_ "black person").
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
>>>> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Rev. Al Sharpton on MSNBC's _Deadline: White House_:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "[Now President Trump is] talking about 'paddy wagons' which, by the
>>>> way,
>>>>>> is a *slur*, Mr. President!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>>> truth."
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>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> -Wilson
>>>>> -----
>>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
>>>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>>> -Mark Twain
>>>>>
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>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>
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>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>>>
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>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
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>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>> --
>> Forgive your enemy, but remember the ass-hole's name.
>>
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>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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