[Ads-l] Doughboy - alternate explaination and implied antedating

Sat Apr 28 23:14:05 UTC 2018

 >does "dough foot" confirm or at least support the 1864 explaination of
"dough boy" relating to walking or plodding on soft ground?

I'd say no, partly because there are no early attestations of "doughfoot"
and partly because the explanation itself seems fanciful.

Great find of 1832 "gridiron and doughboys." But remember that, in my day,
we didn't have no newfangled 'puter databases operatin' in cyberspace.

How 'bout "goose and gridiron"?

JL

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 5:03 PM, Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at gmail.com>
wrote:

> https://militaryimages.atavist.com/doughboys-origins-
> of-a-classic-americanism-autumn-2017 <https://militaryimages.
> atavist.com/doughboys-origins-of-a-classic-americanism-autumn-2017>
> provides a range of explanations and gives a type of donut as the most
> likely explanation.
>
> Alternatively, I wonder if this could be a (playful?) corruption of
> “doughty.” I’m not the first one to wonder about a connection;
> BruisedOrange asks about it in 2014 (http://www.word-detective.
> com/2009/03/doughdoughboy/ <http://www.word-detective.
> com/2009/03/doughdoughboy/>).
>
> The donut explanation seems more likely, but FWIW below are three people
> surnamed Doughty that could have given rise to such an expression. I have
> no corroboration to demonstrate a connection.:
>
> 1. Major John Doughty
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmar_Campaign <https://en.wikipedia.org/
> wiki/Harmar_Campaign>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Doughty <https://en.wikipedia.org/
> wiki/John_Doughty>
>
> History of the Early Discovery of America and Landing of the Pilgrims, p.
> 685
> Samuel Gardner Drake
> https://bit.ly/2Hynqew <https://bit.ly/2Hynqew>
>
> ——
> In the month of April, 1790, Maj. John Doughty and Ensign Sedam went….
> Such are the incidents of the massacre of Maj. Doughty’s men.
> ——
>
> Handbook of the American Frontier: The southeastern woodlands, p. 137
> Joseph Norman Heard
> https://bit.ly/2r7ut3v <https://bit.ly/2r7ut3v>
>
> ——
> In 1789 General Josiah Harmar sent Major John Doughty with 15 soldiers up
> the Tennessee River to protect the establishment of a Chickasaw trading
> post…. In a sanguinary encounter, Doughty was compelled to seek sanctuary
> with the Spanish at New Madrid when the Indians killed six of his men.
> ——
>
> 2. Private John Doughty
> https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/117597386/john-doughty <
> https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/117597386/john-doughty>
> c.f. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dade_Massacre <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dade_Massacre> (no mention of Doughty)
>
> ——
> A soldier under Maj. Frances Dade, Killed on the road from Fort Brooke to
> Fort King by Seminole Indians in what became known as Dade's Massacre.
> ——
>
> 3. History of Piscataquis County, Maine: From Its Earliest Settlement to
> 1880, p. 187
> Amasa Loring
> https://bit.ly/2HynJpG <https://bit.ly/2HynJpG>
>
> ——
> During 1824,…. The mail was now carried weekly, though in rather a
> primitive manner…. So, the Doughty boys at first, then Benjamin
> Stinchfield, took it in a pack, and footed it down and back, usually going
> to Sangerville village, to do certain entrusted errands.
> ——
>
> Benjamin Barrett
> Formerly of Seattle, WA
>
> > On 28 Apr 2018, at 13:17, Peter Reitan <pjreitan at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >
> >>> No appearance of the British phrase "gridiron and doughboys" is known
> to me outside of old slang dictionaries.<<
> >
> >
> > "Gridiron and dough boys" proudly used by Americans as early as 1832, in
> the single example I could find outside of slang dictionaries.
> >
> >
> > It appears in an article responsive to a letter of complaint about an
> American naval vessel that rendered a 21 gun salute to King Miguel I of
> Portugual when he passed in a yacht in a Portuguese harbor.  He was later
> given a 42 gun salute when he visited the ship.  The letter also complained
> about the fact that the American ship flew the Portuguese flag and the
> royal ensign while the king was onboard.  The letter writer thought the
> American officers should have ignored the king, as did the French and
> English ships in the harbor.  He had ascended to the throne through some
> illegal maneuvers, and was not considered legitimate.
> >
> >
> > The writer responding to the complaint supported the American officers'
> decision to honor him, saying that it was not their place to judge the
> legitimacy of the crown.  However, they agreed that they should not have
> flown his flags on an American ship.
> >
> >
> >
> > From Niles Register (Baltimore, Maryland), 4th Series, Volume 7, Number
> 2, September 8, 1832, page 21.
> >
> > [Excerpt] The Portuguese Tiger. . . . .  The commanders of our vessels
> of war, unless under instructions, have nothing to do, we think, with
> deciding between kings de facto and kings de jure, and the proceedings of
> the British and French naval officers should be no rule for them; but this,
> at least, we might wish - that the "royal ensign" had not floated at the
> main!  Let the "gridiorn and dough boys," the stripes and the stars, only,
> have a place there! [End excerpt]
> >
> >
> > As for "dough boy" as a nickname for infantry, does "dough foot" confirm
> or at least support the 1864 explaination of "dough boy" relating to
> walking or plodding on soft ground?
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2018 9:56 AM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Doughboy - alternate explaination and implied antedating
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: Doughboy - alternate explaination and implied
> antedating
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
> >
> > More exx. than you might want in HDAS. Also another, if less colorful,
> > proposed derivation.
> >
> > To my knowledge, "the gridiron and doughboys" was a British phrase.
> >
> > BTW, here is a major antedating of the synonymous "doughfoot," freq. used
> > by Ernie Pyle in WW2 - and naturally also in HDAS, your one-stop resource
> > if you don't give a good goddamn about the second half of the alphabet.
> >
> > Like "dogface," it must have been used in WW1 by very few :
> >
> > 1917 *Every Evening* (Wilmington, Del.) (June 19) 8: Everyone who was a
> > =E2=80=9Cdough-foot=E2=80=9D at Plattsburg will remember what a Godsend
> the=
> > canteen
> > was=E2=80=A6after a day=E2=80=99s training.
> >
> > Derivation: "one who plods; slowpoke". [But infl. by "doughboy."]
> >
> > 1903 *Professional World* (Columbia. Mo.) (Dec. 11) 4:The
> parrot=E2=80=A6sh=
> > rieked
> > =E2=80=9Cdough-foot.=E2=80=9D *1911* *Dayton* [O.] *Herald* (May 24) 12:
> Ty=
> > Cobb stole
> > three bases,  [but]=E2=80=A6even such a dough-foot as Sam Crawford
> swiped t=
> > wo.
> >
> > No appearance of the British phrase "gridiron and doughboys" is known to
> me
> > outside of old slang dictionaries.
> >
> >
> > JL
>
>
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