[Ads-l] Shoulda seen it coming....

[Baker, John]

It’s important to remember that Trump did not just characterize Haiti, El Salvador, and African countries as “shithole” or “shithouse” countries.  Either term is offensive to those countries, but by itself it can be understood as just a crude way of saying that the countries are poor places where it is unpleasant to live.  But what Trump actually said, according to the Washington Post, was “Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?”  In other words, he asserted that people are inherently undesirable simply because they come from those countries.  There is no sugar-coating that sentiment, even if he had said “Why are we having all these people from countries without plumbing come here?”


John Baker



From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ben Zimmer
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 9:47 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Shoulda seen it coming....

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That plumbing explanation is the rather implausible spin that some
Republicans have been putting on Trump's comment:

https://twitter.com/scottwongDC/status/953305502183763969<https://twitter.com/scottwongDC/status/953305502183763969>
Scott Wong of The Hill: "Why are some Trump allies arguing that POTUS said
'shithouse' rather than 'shithole'? Some Rs say 'shithouse countries'
refers to poor countries w/no plumbing -- places where u have to walk out
to the shithouse -- and therefore the phrase is NOT racist."

But as I wrote for the Atlantic, "shithouse" has long been used to demean
people and places, with a general meaning of "disgusting, contemptible," so
it's in no way better than "shithole."

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/01/a-linguistic-guide-to-donald-trumps-scatological-insults/550589/<https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/01/a-linguistic-guide-to-donald-trumps-scatological-insults/550589/>


On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 9:38 AM, Stanton McCandlish <smccandlish at gmail.com<mailto:smccandlish at gmail.com>>
wrote:

> I'm no apologist for Trump, but *if* he really did say "shithouse
> countries", the intended implication could be "poor places where most
> people don't have indoor plumbing and have to go to an outhouse", while
> "shithole counties" might more directly imply countries that are shitholes.
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 6:14 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com<mailto:wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> > None, except that believing that the word was "-house," at least two GOP
> > senators can angrily insist that 45 "did not use that word" (i.e.,
> "-hole,"
> > the version quoted by Durbin and Graham).
> >
> > But if "-house" was really uttered, nobody has so attested in public. So
> > it's all pretty magical.
> >
> > BTW, DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, under senate questioning by Durbin,
> > Graham, and others, claimed under oath that while everyone in the room
> was
> > using "tough language," she certainly didn't hear either "-hole" or
> > anything like it. Could she name even a single offensive word of the
> "very
> > tough language" that she did hear?
> >
> > Nope. Just couldn't remember. Nor was Nielsen entirely sure if Norway
> was a
> > "majority white" country.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:16 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com<mailto:hwgray at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > > he referred to Haiti and the African states not as “shithole
> countries”
> > > but as “shithouse countries”.
> > >
> > > Say what, now? I understand the architectural distinction between a
> > > "shithole," which is found under a "shithouse," but what is the
> semantic
> > > distinction between the two as insults?
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 8:03 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
<mailto:laurence.horn at yale.edu%0b>> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > It was “Shitholegate” on either Daily Show or Colbert, I forget
> which.
> > > > But now the Republican senators are claiming the it was all a
> > fabrication
> > > > on Durbin’s part and that Trump’s language was entirely different
> from
> > > what
> > > > Durbin claimed—he referred to Haiti and the African states not as
> > > “shithole
> > > > countries” but as “shithouse countries”. I guess that means it has
> to
> > be
> > > > “Shitho_(_)egate”, not too catchy.
> > > >
> > > > LH
> > > >
> > > > > On Jan 17, 2018, at 7:50 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> > wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM<mailto:wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > MSNBC:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Ess Hole Gate."
> > > > >
> > > > >
>

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