[Ads-l] Shoulda seen it coming....

Thu Jan 18 17:29:19 UTC 2018

Frankly, the notion that any native speaker of American English would, in
freewheeling conversation, understand the phrase "shithouse countries" as
meaning "countries without indoor plumbing" defies my credulity.

But, as John says, it don't matter.

JL

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
wrote:

> The "rather implausible spin" is a basic feature of the Trump
> Administration and, by extension, of contemporary Republicanism.  When the
> current president utters some controversial statement, the question is not
> "what did he mean by that?", but rather "what farfetched explanation can we
> come up with that will not be believed by any liberals or moderates but
> will be believed by many of our base and at least saves us enough face that
> we can move on to the next controversial statement?"
>
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Ben
> Zimmer <bgzimmer at GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 9:47 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Shoulda seen it coming....
>
> That plumbing explanation is the rather implausible spin that some
> Republicans have been putting on Trump's comment:
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__
> twitter.com_scottwongDC_status_953305502183763969&d=
> DwIFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=fA3T4uAm2gJS6K8eux_
> g80UR5n-rtd2GpmRMO1hHScg&m=cWCDSYp0DQniX_OuSrpHRiq0DoahXYm5etKh_1FljdU&s=
> IaEYEFkahZUPiP7w6GOPkqO6cqRk__ZEaqklJWbE5QM&e=
> Scott Wong of The Hill: "Why are some Trump allies arguing that POTUS said
> 'shithouse' rather than 'shithole'? Some Rs say 'shithouse countries'
> refers to poor countries w/no plumbing -- places where u have to walk out
> to the shithouse -- and therefore the phrase is NOT racist."
>
> But as I wrote for the Atlantic, "shithouse" has long been used to demean
> people and places, with a general meaning of "disgusting, contemptible," so
> it's in no way better than "shithole."
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
> theatlantic.com_entertainment_archive_2018_01_a-2Dlinguistic-2Dguide-2Dto-
> 2Ddonald-2Dtrumps-2Dscatological-2Dinsults_550589_&d=DwIFaQ&c=
> cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=fA3T4uAm2gJS6K8eux_g80UR5n-rtd2GpmRMO1hHScg&m=
> cWCDSYp0DQniX_OuSrpHRiq0DoahXYm5etKh_1FljdU&s=OEBesepqm2DibMA1XOPW_o_
> zyWUreOXWbROADv51tqk&e=
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 9:38 AM, Stanton McCandlish <smccandlish at gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > I'm no apologist for Trump, but *if* he really did say "shithouse
> > countries", the intended implication could be "poor places where most
> > people don't have indoor plumbing and have to go to an outhouse", while
> > "shithole counties" might more directly imply countries that are
> shitholes.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 6:14 AM, Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > None, except that believing that the word was "-house," at least two
> GOP
> > > senators can angrily insist that 45 "did not use that word" (i.e.,
> > "-hole,"
> > > the version quoted by Durbin and Graham).
> > >
> > > But if "-house" was really uttered, nobody has so attested in public.
> So
> > > it's all pretty magical.
> > >
> > > BTW, DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, under senate questioning by
> Durbin,
> > > Graham, and others, claimed under oath that while everyone in the room
> > was
> > > using "tough language," she certainly didn't hear either "-hole" or
> > > anything like it. Could she name even a single offensive word of the
> > "very
> > > tough language" that she did hear?
> > >
> > > Nope. Just couldn't remember. Nor was Nielsen entirely sure if Norway
> > was a
> > > "majority white" country.
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:16 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > he referred to Haiti and the African states not as “shithole
> > countries”
> > > > but as “shithouse countries”.
> > > >
> > > > Say what, now? I understand the architectural distinction between a
> > > > "shithole," which is found under a "shithouse," but what is the
> > semantic
> > > > distinction between the two as insults?
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 8:03 PM, Laurence Horn <
> laurence.horn at yale.edu
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > It was “Shitholegate” on either Daily Show or Colbert, I forget
> > which.
> > > > > But now the Republican senators are claiming the it was all a
> > > fabrication
> > > > > on Durbin’s part and that Trump’s language was entirely different
> > from
> > > > what
> > > > > Durbin claimed—he referred to Haiti and the African states not as
> > > > “shithole
> > > > > countries” but as “shithouse countries”.  I guess that means it has
> > to
> > > be
> > > > > “Shitho_(_)egate”, not too catchy.
> > > > >
> > > > > LH
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Jan 17, 2018, at 7:50 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> > > wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > MSNBC:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Ess Hole Gate."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
>
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