[Ads-l] Rossini Quotation

Sat May 12 21:28:37 UTC 2018

Apologies for the large number of messages, but you do get to see
every exciting twist, turn, and revelation. This will be my last
message on this topic for many hours.

Here is a citation for a letter in French dated 1751 (published in
1756) that contains an instance of the remark ascribed to Rameau
(probably Jean-Philippe Rameau who died in 1764).

Year: 1756 (MDCCLVI)
Title: Les cinq années littéraires, ou lettres de M. Clément, sur les
ouvrages de littérature qui ont paru dans les années 1748, 1749, 1750,
1751, & 1752
Tome: Second
Imprimees: A Berlin
Letter Number: 69
Date of Letter: 1er Fevrier, 1751 (February 1, 1751)
Location of Letter: Paris
Start Page 3, Quote Page 5
Database: HathiTrust

[Begin excerpt]
Vous sçavez, MONSIEUR, ce que disoit Rameau, que si on le fâchoit, il
mettroit en musique la Gazette d'Hollande: . . .
[End excerpt]

[Begin Google translation]
You know, sir, what Rameau said, that if he was angry, he would put to
music the Gazette of Holland. . .
[End Google translation]

Garson

On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 3:58 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole
<adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
> The Rameau variant about the Holland Gazette was circulating in
> English by 1784. I haven't searched for it in French yet. Gioachino
> Rossini was born in 1792. So the Rameau variant is a precursor.
> Jean-Philippe Rameau died in 1764.
>
> Year: 1784
> Title: A New and General Biographical Dictionary,
> Edition: New Edition in 12 Volumes
> Volume 11
> Entry: John Philip Rameau
> Start Page 22, Quote Page 22
> Publication: Printed for W. Strahan, T. Payne and Son etc., London
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=CtZaM_xXaQgC&q=%22give+me+but%22#v=snippet&
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> It was a saying of Quinault that "the Poet was the Musician's
> servant;" but Rameau would say, "Give me but a Holland Gazette, and I
> will set it to music:" and we are almost ready to concur with him,
> inasmuch as we have known the London Cries of "The last dying speech
> of the malefactors who were executed this morning at Tyburn," &c. to
> be set and sung most-harmoniously.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
>
> On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 1:42 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole
> <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks for your helpful comments about Italian, GAT. I have also heard
>> remarks in the same family applied to actors, e.g., the actor makes
>> impressive declamations based on a telephone book.
>>
>> Here is a version of the statement attributed to Rameau (in Italian)
>> in 1817. Background: Gioachino Rossini was born in 1792.
>>
>> Year: 1817
>> Title: Lo spettatore straniero ovvero mescolanze di viaggi, di
>> statistica, di storia, di politica, di letteratura, di belle arti e di
>> filosofia
>> Publication: Presso Gli Editori A.F. Stella E Comp, Milano
>> Section: Musica e Parole
>> Quote Page 153
>>
>> https://books.google.com/books?id=aFNJC4o3ZXwC&q=%22di+Leida%22#v=snippet&q=%22di%20Leida%22&f=false
>>
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> Rameau al contrario dicea: datemi a Gazzetta di Leida e la metterò in
>> musica. Ciò sarebbe un dire che la musica non può nulla esprimere,
>> poichè può applicarsi ad ogni proposito e canta ugualmente le nuove
>> politiche e le pene e le gioie dell'amore.
>> [End excerpt]
>>
>> [Begin Google translate]
>> On the contrary, Rameau says: give me to Gazzetta di Leida and I will
>> put it to music. This would be a saying that music can not express
>> anything, as it can be applied to every purpose and sings equally the
>> new policies and the pains and joys of love.
>> [End Google translate]
>>
>> Garson
>>
>> On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 12:58 PM, George Thompson
>> <george.thompson at nyu.edu> wrote:
>>> I've seen a great actor praised at being able to read a laundry list with
>>> effect -- and more than one, at that.
>>>
>>> laundress list: my paperback Dizionario Garzanti doesn't have "lavandaia",
>>> (I have a fuller dictionary, which I can't find right now) but I think this
>>> would be better as a possessive: laundress' list
>>> un poeta la metta prima in ottenari = if we read "ott*o*nari" instead of
>>> "ott*e*nari" then this means "a poet first puts it into verses of eight
>>> syllables"
>>> Dio mi guardi = (I think) God keep me from taking too seriously. . . .
>>>
>>> And Rossini was born in Pesaro, hence "the great Pesarese"
>>>
>>> GAT
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 11:57 AM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
>>> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fred Shapiro, Fred wrote:
>>>> > I am trying to trace a quotation, attributed to Rossini: "Give me a
>>>> laundry list
>>>> > and I'll [or 'I will'] set it to music."  In a little bit of searching
>>>> the earliest I have
>>>> > found it is from 1941.  I would welcome any help in finding pre-1941
>>>> occurrences
>>>> > of this in English or in Italian.
>>>>
>>>> Fun question. Here are matches in Italian in 1914 and 1913 for the
>>>> statement attributed to Rossini. Please double check for errors. I do
>>>> not know any Italian, so I am employing Google Translate which creates
>>>> flawed text. Rossini died in 1868, so there is probably considerable
>>>> room for improvement of these citations.
>>>>
>>>> Year: 1914
>>>> Title: Musicisti contemporanei; saggi critici
>>>> Author: Ildebrando Pizzetti
>>>> Publisher: Fratelli Treves, Milano
>>>> Section: I versi "per musica,,.
>>>> Quote Page 272 and 273
>>>> Database: HathiTrust
>>>>
>>>> https://hdl.handle.net/2027/wu.89000640581
>>>> https://hdl.handle.net/2027/wu.89000640581?urlappend=%3Bseq=293
>>>>
>>>> [Begin excerpt]
>>>> Essi potrebbero quasi ripetere, con Rossini, che anche la lista della
>>>> lavandaia si può mettere in musica; sottintendendo solamente (come
>>>> doveva sottintenderlo Rossini): purchè un poeta la metta prima in
>>>> ottenari coi quali la musica possa marciare speditamente.
>>>> [End excerpt]
>>>>
>>>> [Begin Google translation]
>>>> They could almost repeat, with Rossini, that even the laundress list
>>>> can be put into music; implying only (as Rossini had to imply): as
>>>> long as a poet puts it first in obtainances with which music can march
>>>> quickly.
>>>> [End Google translation]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Year: 1913
>>>> Periodical: Rivista d'Italia
>>>> Anno 16, Volume 2
>>>> Section: Giuseppe Verdi
>>>> Start Page 398, Quote Page 398
>>>> Publication: Piazza Cavour, Roma
>>>> Database: HathiTrust
>>>>
>>>> https://hdl.handle.net/2027/njp.32101076382314
>>>> https://hdl.handle.net/2027/njp.32101076382314?urlappend=%3Bseq=404
>>>>
>>>> [Begin excerpt]
>>>> Il Verdi intese, meglio del Rossini, il compito che alla musica è
>>>> assegnato nel melodramma. Dio mi guardi dal prendere troppo sul serio
>>>> l'espressione del grande Pesarese, che si dichiarava disposto a
>>>> musicare la nota...della lavandaia.
>>>> [End excerpt]
>>>>
>>>> [Begin Google translation]
>>>> The Verdi understood, better than Rossini, the task assigned to music
>>>> in melodrama. God look at me from taking too seriously the expression
>>>> of the great Pesarese, who declared himself disposed to music the note
>>>> ... of laundress.
>>>> [End Google translation]
>>>>
>>>> Garson O'Toole
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> George A. Thompson
>>> The Guy Who Still Looks Stuff Up in Books.
>>> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
>>> Univ. Pr., 1998.
>>>
>>> But when aroused at the Trump of Doom / Ye shall start, bold kings, from
>>> your lowly tomb. . .
>>> L. H. Sigourney, "Burial of Mazeen", Poems.  Boston, 1827, p. 112
>>>
>>> The Trump of Doom -- also known as The Dunghill Toadstool.  (Here's a
>>> picture of his great-grandfather.)
>>> http://www.parliament.uk/worksofart/artwork/james-gillray/an-excrescence---a-fungus-alias-a-toadstool-upon-a-dunghill/3851
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org