[Ads-l] Antedating of "Phoney"

Andy Bach afbach at GMAIL.COM
Mon Aug 5 19:04:31 EDT 2019


> His visit to this city was to work the last-named racket, about two hundred snide rings of all kinds being found in his kit.

Never heard "snide" as fake before:
A favourite con trick that Tommy used, as did many others in the East
End, myself included, was to go to the main dealer in snide rings.
Tommy Venables sold so many of these rings all over London he was luck
to have only one scar down his face, because many receivers had a
heavy on the firm to sort out anyone who targeted them as suckers.
"Reggie Kray's East End Stories: The lost memoirs of the gangland
legend" Reggie Kray, Peter Gerrard (recollections of 1930-50 London
gangster)

At the same time the snide or snyde meant a generally fake or
deceptive person as well as a confidence trickster. It has been linked
to two German words: aufschneiden, to boast, to brag, to show off, and
schneide, to cut, e.g. counterfeit coins
"Crooked Talk: Five Hundred Years of the Language of Crime" Jonathon Green

"schneider" means "tailor" but WikiP has it as negative, implying
"financial difficulties" and other troubles in card games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schneider_(cards)

I know my Dad's friends (he owned a bar) would talk about being "on
the schneide" but I never knew what the meaning was in that context.
Probably unrelated to a "schnit and a boombah" which was a shot and a
beer (or vice versa).

On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 3:06 AM ADSGarson O'Toole
<adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Peter Reitan wrote:
> > "Phoney ring," 1889, consistent with etymology from "fawney ring,"
> > a gilt, brass ring used in a con in which someone pretends to find
> > a valuable ring,  and sells it at a seemingly good price to a duped
> > witness.
> >
> > From the Wilmington (Delaware) Morning News. September 5, 1889, page 3.
> > https://www.newspapers.com/clip/34550951/the_morning_news/
> >
> > "Sergeant Blackburn had a lively chase after a 'phoney ring' fakir,
> > who was trying to work people at the Market street station of the
> > Baltimore and Ohio railroad, shortly after 6 o'clock last evening."
>
> Excellent find, Peter. Here is another example of phony jewelry in a
> slightly earlier citation in 1888. The article eventually indicates
> that the phony jewelry corresponds to rings.
>
> Date: August 25, 1888
> Newspaper: The Cincinnati Enquirer
> Newspaper Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
> Article: Played His Last Card: Sudden Death at a Faro-Table
> Quote Page 1, Column 4
> Database: Newspapers.com
>
> [Begin excerpt - double-check for errors]
> When arrested he was drunk and had $320 in his clothes, although the
> suit he wore was not worth seventy-five cents. He was known to the
> police as a circus and fair worker, and was an all-round "sure-thing"
> man, a shell-worker, dealer in "phony" jewelry, &c. His visit to this
> city was to work the last-named racket, about two hundred snide rings
> of all kinds being found in his kit.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
>
>
>
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of W Brewer <brewerwa at GMAIL.COM>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 7:04:38 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: Antedating of "Phoney"
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       W Brewer <brewerwa at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: Antedating of "Phoney"
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > FS:  << "This gang has succeeded in floating in the Twin Cities an immense
> > amount of the finest work of "phoney" plates and molds ever seen by the
> > officials." >>
> > GT:  << Plates for counterfeiting currency and molds for coins, I think. >>
> > WB:  Well, I'm sure it was a cabal of renegade dentists peddling
> > black-market dentures & tooth molds.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org



-- 

a

Andy Bach,
afbach at gmail.com
608 658-1890 cell
608 261-5738 wk

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