[Ads-l] fuck you very much (1974)

[Barretts Mail]

Thank you, GO, for the words of caution. I really dislike trying to deal with Google’s dates.

The year “1974” gets 69 hits, but “1975” gets none, and I entered a few years after 1974 and got no hits. That, plus the citation I gave from the WorldCat, is why I cited it as 1974.

FWIW, Kenagy seems to also cite a work she did as an undergraduate. Searching for her name reveals “By / Susan Gandell Kenagy / A.B (University of California, Los Angeles) 1969”, so this does seem, not surprisingly, to involve multiple years of work.

The codes used in “The Fighter Pilots Songs” match the codes Kenagy cite and can be seen in the Kenagy snippet I cited.

BB

> On 12 Aug 2019, at 02:49, ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> Excellent citation, Benjamin. Searching for 1974 in the GB book "The
> Folk Speech of United States Air Force Transport Pilots" shows a
> snippet on page 78 (GB) which states:
> 
> "course of study, from, November, 1972, to January, 1974, the".
> 
> The book may contain data from multiple studies conducted during
> different time periods. As ADS members know, GB dates are not
> reliable, and each book containing a match should be examined directly
> to verify dates (in my opinion).
> 
> The Horntip collection has a match for the phrase. The year is reportedly 1975.
> 
> Fighter Pilots Songs (1975)
> https://www.horntip.com/html/books_&_MSS/1970s/1975-1985_fighter_pilot_songs/index.htm
> 
> [Begin excerpt]
> 107 This place really sucks
> 108  Fuck you very much
> 109  Beautiful, just fucking beautiful
> 110  That goddamned o'club
> [End excerpt]
> 
> The PDF can be downloaded via a link at the top of the page. I did not
> see the 1975 date mentioned in the PDF itself. So I do not know how
> the date was determined. The target text can be seen by counting
> backward to reach the eleventh page from the final page of the PDF.
> 
> On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:43 PM Jesse Sheidlower <jester at panix.com> wrote:
>> 
>> There is in fact a 1978 example from Armistead Maupin in HDAS, under _fuck_ v. sense 3.a. And I did elevate this into a separate subentry in _The F-Word_, but the earliest example I could find was from Terence McNally, a1976, so this is an antedating, thank you!
>> 
>> _fuck you very much_ s.v. _fuck_ v., (used as a sarcastic or blatantly insincere expression of undeserved thanks).
>> 
>> a1976 T. McNally _Ritz & Other Plays_ 159: Fuck you, ducky, fuck you very much. Nice place you got here. [etc.]
>> 
>> Jesse Sheidlower
>> 
>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 06:36:45PM -0700, Barretts Mail wrote:
>>> I don’t see this in the HDAS, published in 1994, or the OED.
>>> 
>>> Wiktionary (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fuck_you_very_much <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fuck_you_very_much>) says the expression is a blend of “fuck you” and “thank you very much” and labels it vulgar. AFAIK, this is usually jocular.
>>> 
>>> The earliest entry in the UD (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fuck%20you%20very%20much <https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fuck%20you%20very%20much>) is 2005. Two UD definitions give a negative connotation and one an ironical one. One definition claims it originated in “The FCC Song”.
>>> 
>>> Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck_you_very_much <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck_you_very_much>) gives the “FCC Song” from 2004. The Wikipedia entry on Divine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_(performer) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_(performer)>), however, cites Bernard Jay’s book “Not Simply Divine” (1993, https://tinyurl.com/yy7wnrdz <https://tinyurl.com/yy7wnrdz>), which has the expression as used by Divine (Harris Glenn Milstead).
>>> 
>>> The earliest citation I find is a master’s thesis:
>>> 
>>> https://tinyurl.com/y44rxzme <https://tinyurl.com/y44rxzme>
>>> The Folk Speech of United States Air Force Transport Pilots
>>> 1974 (https://www.worldcat.org/title/folk-speech-of-united-states-air-force-transport-pilots/oclc/29421517 <https://www.worldcat.org/title/folk-speech-of-united-states-air-force-transport-pilots/oclc/29421517>)
>>> Suzanne G Kenagy
>>> 
>>> Other citations earlier than Jay’s 1993 work are the "National Lampoon" (1982, but probably wrong, https://tinyurl.com/y4rao7kt <https://tinyurl.com/y4rao7kt>), "Native speech” by Eric Overmyer (revised 1986, https://tinyurl.com/y6pugqjv <https://tinyurl.com/y6pugqjv>) and “Mother Jones” (April 1984, https://tinyurl.com/y5jjh86f <https://tinyurl.com/y5jjh86f>).

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