[Ads-l] "a red mike" USN/USNA slang

Thu Aug 22 01:01:43 UTC 2019

Homosexuality was so taboo a subject in 1908 that if Annapolis cadets were
using a special term to refer specifically for gay men, it would
undoubtedly have been a lot cruder than "Red Mike," and it wouldn't have
appeared in their yearbook in any case.

Unless I misread history, "woman-hater," rather like "misogynist," didn't
ordinarily carry any specially gay overtones.

JL

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 6:50 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Here is an instance of "Red Mikes" in 1908. It might mean socially
> incompetent, timid, gay, or uninterested in the "fair sex".
>
> Year: 1908
> Title: The Lucky Bag 1908: A Chapter in the History of the United
> States Naval Academy
> Volume: XV
> Article: That Leap Year Dance
> Quote Page 315
> Printer: Printed and Arranged by the Hoskins Press, Philadelphia,
> Pennsylvania
>
> https://hdl.handle.net/2027/umn.31951002230017c?urlappend=%3Bseq=243
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> After four more dances, of which I danced none, I could stand it no
> longer. There was I, an erstwhile popular man, sitting out all the
> dances, while my friend who entered the ball-room with fear and
> trembling was dancing every one and seemed to be the beau of the hour.
> I realized only too late that I was a fallen angel, a lemon and a gold
> brick of the first order. Cautiously making my way across the floor I
> arrived at the receiving stand, where I determined to hide myself
> behind the large flags in the rear, and there, much to my inward
> feelings of thankfulness, I found a companion who, like myself, had
> made a social error in coming to the dance.
>
> With my head resting on his shoulder I consoled him, and we swore that
> henceforth we would be womanhaters and Red Mikes; then I forgot the
> mental agony of the evening, and we decided that, after all, the whole
> affair was a frost.
> [End excerpt]
>
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 6:11 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Earlier and a later RM&Vs
> >
> > 1925 _Washington Evening Star_ (June 25) 39 : Corned beef and
> > cabbage..."Red Mike and Violets," as the succulent dish is known in less
> > ornate caravansaries.
> >
> > 1925 _Boston Daily Globe_ (Aug. 28) A-2: NEWTON [Mass.] ... John Nagle,
> > founder of the Bow Wow Beanery,...is behind the counter again at the City
> > Hall cafe, dispensing "red Mike and violets" as of yore."
> >
> > (No translation was thought necessary).
> >
> > 1967 _Washington Post_  (Apr. 2) 6: Alas and alack for all hymns to "red
> > mike and violets" and "Irish turkey," corned beef and cabbage is not now
> > and never was an Irish dish.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 5:31 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Here's another early ex.:
> > >
> > > 1911 _Dallas Morning News_ (June 11) 35: According to the "Lucky Bag,"
> the
> > > annual book of the [Annapolis] graduating class,...[he] was a decided
> "red
> > > Mike" when he first entered, which means he was timid with the fair
> sex.
> > >
> > > So far as I know, this sense of the term was peculiar to the Naval
> Academy.
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 4:01 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Barry Popik has a pertinent food entry.
> > >>
> > >>
> https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/red_mike_and_violets
> > >>
> > >> [Begin excerpt]
> > >> Entry from March 14, 2019
> > >> Red Mike and Violets (corned beef and cabbage)
> > >> "Red Mike and violets” was hash house slang for a dish of “corned beef
> > >> and cabbage.” Corned beef is red, cabbage is violet and “Mike” is a
> > >> traditional Irish name. Corned beef and cabbage is a traditional
> > >> Irish-American dish that has been frequently served on Thursdays and
> > >> on St. Patrick’s Day.
> > >> [End excerpt]
> > >>
> > >> The first citation Barry lists is dated May 17, 1914.
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 12:48 PM Jonathan Lighter
> > >> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > ca1909 in Mame Warren & Marion Warren _Everybody Works but John Paul
> > >> > Jones_  (Annapolis: Naval Institute Press, 1981) 109: The very few
> > >> [naval]
> > >> > cadets who take no part in the hops and other social events are
> branded
> > >> > "red [sic] Mikes."
> > >> >
> > >> > 1906 Chauncey M'Govern _Sarjint Larry an' Frinds_  (Manila: Escolta
> > >> Press)
> > >> > [glossary] : RED MIKE - Canned salmon.
> > >> >
> > >> > 1920 [U.S. Artillery] _Hicoxy's Army_  [pvtly. ptd.] 33 [ref. to
> 1918]:
> > >> > When we weren't picking rusty shell splinters out of our portion of
> Red
> > >> > Mike or Monkey Meat, we were continuing to enjoy life.
> > >> >
> > >> > I don't see the regimental history _Hicoxy's Army_ in WorldCat, but
> NYPL
> > >> > had the copy I used.
> > >> >
> > >> > JL
> > >> >
> > >> > On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 10:14 AM Stephen Goranson <
> goranson at duke.edu>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Not in OED. (HDAS not available for R). Green's Slang online
> gives 1
> > >> (US
> > >> > > milit.) canned salmon 1906; 2 corned beef 1935.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Whether related to the above or not, three other uses of the
> > >> collocation
> > >> > > follow.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > a) June 18, 1922 Anaconda [Montana] Standard, p 15? col. 3 "Eight
> > >> Montana
> > >> > > Boys Graduate...Annapolis..."
> > >> > > "Pete," it is learned, now looks on the fair sex with toleration.
> "As
> > >> a
> > >> > > 'Red Mike'"--apparently the navy name for a woman-hater--"Pete was
> > >> always a
> > >> > > loud claimant for first honors in the society," says the class
> > >> Boswell,
> > >> > > "until he reached the Pall [Pali, Bali?] He tumbled there for a
> little
> > >> > > Hawaiian maiden....he has softened to the fair sex ever since."
> > >> > >
> > >> > > b) July 26, 1936 Times-Picayune p 75 col. 1"Ensigns mustn't Marry"
> > >> > > Her smile was calculated to rock even a Red Mike like Bill.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > c) In a 1940 US Naval Academy yearbook, certain midshipmen are
> > >> describes
> > >> > > as examples of a "red mike," someone apparently not interested in
> > >> women.[1]
> > >> > >
> > >> > > [1] many searchable instances in:
> > >> > > https://archive.org/details/luckybag1940unse
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Stephen Goranson
> > >> > > http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > [https://archive.org/services/img/luckybag1940unse]<
> > >> > > https://archive.org/details/luckybag1940unse>
> > >> > > Lucky Bag : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet
> Archive<
> > >> > > https://archive.org/details/luckybag1940unse>
> > >> > > EMBED (for wordpress.com hosted blogs and archive.org item
> > >> <description>
> > >> > > tags)
> > >> > > archive.org
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > >> truth."
> > >> >
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> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

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