[Ads-l] Bootstrap antedating

Tue Jul 9 19:56:28 UTC 2019

Dave Wilton wrote:
> I'm not sure of the date on this one. The title page says 1813 and
> it is "stereo-typed from the fifty-third edition." The copyright page
> and advertisement are dated 1838. The preface is dated 1830.

I think our messages crossed in cyberspace, Dave. There was no link to
the book labeled 1813 in your message, but I think the edition you
found is probably the one I warned about in another message. Looking
carefully at the year on the title page suggests strongly to me that
1813 is really 1843. The 4 is degraded.

https://books.google.com/books?id=xJgAAAAAMAAJ&q=%22the+straps%22#v=snippet&

Google apparently re-enters metadata during scanning based on visual
inspection. I think someone in the scanning operation looked at the
book quickly and decided that the year was 1813. That is the simplest
hypothesis consistent with the metadata errors I have noticed over the
years. Google has access to the original catalog metadata, and they
should use it preferentially in my opinion. Catalog metadata should be
overruled only after careful consideration and examination. (On the
other hand, maybe some catalog database somewhere specifies the year
1813.)

Garson

On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 3:27 PM Dave Wilton <dave at wilton.net> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure of the date on this one. The title page says 1813 and it is "stereo-typed from the fifty-third edition." The copyright page and advertisement are dated 1838. The preface is dated 1830.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> On Behalf Of ADSGarson O'Toole
> Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2019 1:56 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Bootstrap antedating
>
> Here is an instance in 1831
>
> Year: 1831
> Book: A System of Natural Philosophy: In which the Principles of Mechanics ...
> Author: John Lee Comstock
> Quote Page 40
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=iWpYAAAAYAAJ&q=%22the+straps%22#v=snippet&q=%22the%20straps%22&f=false
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> Had the sails received the whole force of the wind from the bellows, the boat would not have moved at all, for then, action and re-action would have been exactly equal,  and it would have been like a man's attempting to raise himself over a fence by the straps of his boots.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
> On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 2:45 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Dave and Stephen.
> > Barry Popik has an entry which acknowledges the assistance of Ben
> > Zimmer who posted information to the ADS list on August 11, 2005.
> > https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/pull_yourself
> > _up_by_your_bootstraps
> >
> > Barry lists the following earliest citation:
> >
> > [Begin excerpt from barrypopik.com]
> > 30 September 1834, New-York )NY) American, pg. 2, col. 4: KNOW YE,
> > that I, NIMROD MURPHREE, of the city of Nashville, and state of
> > Tennessee, have discovered perpetual motion. N. MUROHREE.
> >
> > Nashville, Aug, 27, 1834.—We clip the above from the last number of
> > the Nashville (Tenn.) Banner, where it appears as an advertisement,
> > without note or comment. Probably Mr. Murphree has succeeded in
> > handing himself over the Cumberland river, or a barn yard fence, by
> > the straps of his boots. We advise him to send his pretensions on the
> > next Congress by Col. Crockett himself, whose motto is “go
> > ahead!”—[Mobile Adv.] [End excerpt from barrypopik.com]
> >
> > Garson
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 12:41 PM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > "Had this man made, and applied the experiment of attempting to raise himself into the air by pulling at his boot-straps, he would have saved himself the expense of building such a boat."
> > > Youth's Book of Natural Philosophy, J. L. Comstock (Hartford 1838, c1834) 45.
> > > https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hn5wzr&view=1up&seq=47
> > >
> > > S. Goranson
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: American Dialect Society <...> on behalf of Dave Wilton <...>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2019 10:13 AM
> > > To: ...
> > > Subject: [ADS-L] Bootstrap antedating
> > >
> > > The OED has 1891 for the noun and 1922 for the phrase "lift oneself by one's bootstrap." It's much older.
> > >
> > > “The National Observer.” New York Daily Tribune, 4 February 1861, 4.
> > >
> > > The legislation would be as hopeless as the attempt of a man to lift himself by his boot-straps.
> > >
> > > “The Keeley Motor. Alleged Powers of the Machine.” New York Tribune, 17 July 1875, 9.
> > >
> > > You might as well tell me that you have a combination of levers by which you can lift yourself over The Tribune tower in New-York by your boot-straps. What you say is absurd.
> > >
> > > “Has Business Revived: Some Unpalatable Truths About the Situation.” Daily American, 1 November 1977, 2.
> > >
> > > It is possible for business to grow, slowly but steadily. It is not possible for business to lift itself by its own boot-straps.
> > >
> > > “No Up: The Impossibility of Benting Voorlies—A Valuable
> > > Cincinnati…Entirely Lost.” Louisville Courier-Journal, 15 Oct 1878.
> > > 2
> > >
> > > The second point of difficulty is of a much more serious character, and it is about the same that beset the man who attempted to lift himself by his boot-strap.”
> > >
> > > “The Gods: A Lecture on the Subject by Col R. G. Ingersoll.” Detroit Free Press, 4 Feb 1880, 8.
> > >
> > > It was very like attempting to lift one’s self by the boot-straps, a hopeless undertaking, but very good exercise.
> > >
> > > Editorial. Louisville Courier-Journal, 3 Aug 1884, 12.
> > >
> > > It is like a man lifting himself with his bootstraps. There is a lack of purchase or leverage.
> > >
> > > “Commercial Union. Goldwin Smith Urges Manitoba to Join the Ranks.” New York Times, 30 May 1888, 2.
> > >
> > > Others may be persuaded that it can “lift itself by its own bootstraps,” but as Manitoba has no bootstraps it cannot share that fancy.
> > >
> > > Ben Zimmer previously posting the following to this list, which I repeat here:
> > >
> > > Editorial of the Day: The Bootstrapper. Chicago Daily Tribune, 19 Oct 1927, 10.
> > >
> > > Now everyone has heard of the American bootlegger. But the bootstrapper is an even greater national figure, just as the feat of “lifting oneself by one’s bootstraps” is an almost entirely American accomplishment.
> > >
> > > […]
> > >
> > > This is all right so long as there is plenty of room for the first
> > > rate man who has no capacity for bootstrapping and so long as there
> > > is no sudden crisis.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org