[Ads-l] Berkeley and gender neutral words

[Laurence Horn]

And “priestess” (=/= ‘female priest).  And then there’s “governor”/“governess" and other asymmetrical pairs of that ilk.

> On Jul 19, 2019, at 11:45 PM, Peter Reitan <pjreitan at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> See also, "Huntress."
> 
> Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
> 
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 6:16:23 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Berkeley and gender neutral words
> 
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Berkeley and gender neutral words
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> "Goddess" is somehow doing well.
> 
> The neutrality craze is based in part on the elementary fallacy that a
> word's meaning is dictated by its etymology.  Another significant basis is
> the a priori belief that speakers of English are as sensitive to nuance as
> are a subset of people with Ph.Ds and must, in any case, be protected from
> "-man" words, which are dangerously, irremediably sexist and malign.
> 
> JL
> 
> JL
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 8:42 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
> 
>>> On Jul 19, 2019, at 8:01 PM, Mark Mandel <markamandel at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Latin means "No one is an heir or a living person.=E2=80=9D
>> 
>> Mark=E2=80=99s finger meant =E2=80=9Cof=E2=80=9D rather than =E2=80=9Cor=
> =E2=80=9D; the claim as it stands is
>> rather too strong.  More seriously, I don=E2=80=99t get the argument to r=
> eplace
>> =E2=80=9Cheir=E2=80=9D, which is parallel to =E2=80=9Cactor=E2=80=9D and =
> arguably also to =E2=80=9Cpoet=E2=80=9D.  By all
>> means, let=E2=80=99s dump =E2=80=9Cheiress=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cadventuress=
> =E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cactress=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Csculptress=E2=80=9D, or
>> =E2=80=9Cpoetess=E2=80=9D, although it could be (and has been) argued tha=
> t =E2=80=9Cactress=E2=80=9D
>> performs a service that the others don=E2=80=99t, at least until sex-neut=
> ral
>> casting becomes universal; the tradeoff for sex specification may be deem=
> ed
>> worth it.  =E2=80=9CWaitress=E2=80=9D is another case, and I grant we all=
> have different
>> cutoff points. (Mine is rather different from Jon=E2=80=99s, for example.=
> )  But the
>> fact that =E2=80=9Cheiress=E2=80=9D can be plausibly argued to be sexist =
> on the grounds
>> that it marks sex of the referent when it=E2=80=99s irrelevant, I don=E2=
> =80=99t see why
>> that consideration should infect =E2=80=9Cheir=E2=80=9D, which as noted b=
> elow really is
>> just =E2=80=98one who=E2=80=99, on grounds of both usage and etymology.
>> 
>> LH
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 4:35 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <
>> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The word [*heir*] is correctly applied to either a male or a female,
>>>> although,
>>>> in the latter sense, heiress n.   has been in general use since 17th
>>>> cent. In Law a person is not called an heir to any property until,
>>>> through the death of its possessor, he becomes entitled to it (
>>>> *nemo est heres viventis*).
>>>> [End excerpt]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
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