[Ads-l] Berkeley and gender neutral words
Alice Faber
afaber at PANIX.COM
Mon Jul 22 01:20:26 UTC 2019
OK, the actual biased perception of gendered words like "fireman" *may*
not be demeaning (and I agree that it's likely that the studies that
Larry and I discuss don't directly address this issue). However, what is
most definitely demeaning is the assertions in this thread that these
usages don't both reflect and encourage bias.
On 7/21/19 8:20 PM, Peter Reitan wrote:
> To be clear, I wasn't talking about a particular study that made that
> case or purported to make that case.
>
> I was responding to a characterization of some study said to be evidence
> that some "gendered" words sometimes used generically in
> non-gender-specific situations are actually perceived as "demeaning,
> offensive, sexist or the like," as suggested by a poster.
> The brief description of the study did not seem to support the
> conclusion the poster attributed to it.
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Laurence Horn" <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> To: ADS-L at listserv.uga.edu
> Sent: 7/21/2019 1:40:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Berkeley and gender neutral words
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: Berkeley and gender neutral words
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> FWIW, this is Miller & Swift=E2=80=99s summary of the study I was trying =
>> to remember:=20
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/y6d6ztqn
>> =20
>> And a related study with similar results:
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/y42dym4b
>>
>> The experimental protocols in both cases were different from the one =
>> Jon and Peter are discussing, and they don=E2=80=99t relate to what=E2=80=99=
>> s demeaning or offensive, but to which images are evoked by given =
>> =E2=80=9Cneutral=E2=80=9D words, and by hypothesis to who feels included =
>> and who doesn=E2=80=99t.
>>
>> LH
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> =
>> wrote:
>>> =20
>>> I was thinking the same thing. It seems like a non sequitur to jump =
>> from
>>> the described experiment to the conclusion that that the replacement =
>> of
>>> such words would be powerfully (or even marginally) beneficial.
>>> =20
>>> BTW. "sacerdos" not only referred to either sex, its grammatical =
>> gender
>>> varied accordingly.
>>> =20
>>> JL
>>> =20
>>> JL
>>> =20
>>> On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 12:23 PM Peter Reitan <pjreitan at hotmail.com> =
>> wrote:
>>> =20
>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but evidence of being "more likely" to =
>> select
>>>> certain kinds of photos in response to different words is not the =
>> same
>>>> as evidence of being "demeaning, offensive, sexist or the like." Or =
>> is
>>>> there more to the study than you conveyed in the brief reference to =
>> it
>>>> here?
>>>> =20
>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>> From: "Alice Faber" <afaber at panix.com>
>>>> To: ADS-L at listserv.uga.edu
>>>> Sent: 7/20/2019 5:31:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Berkeley and gender neutral words
>>>> =20
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> Poster: Alice Faber <afaber at PANIX.COM>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Berkeley and gender neutral words
>>>> =20
>>>>> =
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>> -----
>>>>> =20
>>>>> On 7/20/19 4:13 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>>>> Is there any pre-craze empirical evidence that women in general =
>> found
>>>> such
>>>>>> words demeaning, offensive, sexist, or the like?
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Actually, there is. I don't remember the citation, but back when I
>>>>> taught intro linguistics and psycholinguistics, there was a study we
>>>>> discussed where the experimental task was to find pictures in =
>> magazines
>>>>> to illustrate specific words. When participants were finding =
>> pictures of
>>>>> firefighters, mail carriers, flaggers and the like they were more =
>> likely
>>>>> to select pictures of women than when they were finding pictures of
>>>>> firemen, mailmen, flagmen, etc. These participants may well have =
>> claimed
>>>>> not to think of the latter as inherently gendered terms, but they
>>>>> certainly acted as if they were.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> AF
>>>>> =20
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> --=20
>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the =
>> truth."
>>> =20
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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