[Ads-l] Modern Proverb: A good loser is no good (Robert Zuppke Nov 6, 1924) (UNCLASSIFIED)

Sun Jun 30 08:18:49 UTC 2019

In case anyone wonders, the Wits recreations author George Herbert (1592-1637) is a different individual than his near contemporary, the fine poet George Herbert (1593-1633).
Stephen
________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2019 10:28 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Modern Proverb: A good loser is no good (Robert Zuppke Nov 6, 1924) (UNCLASSIFIED)

Statements that fit the template "Show me an X, and I'll show you a Y"
were circulating in the 1600s. George Herbert's compilation
"Outlandish Proverbs" appeared posthumously in 1640, and it contained
the following statement (modified to use modern spelling): Show me a
liar, and I will show thee a thief.

Year: 1640
Title: Wits recreations. Selected from the finest fancies of moderne muses
Author: Herbert, George, 1592-1637., Marshall, William, fl. 1617-1650, engraver.
Title: Wits recreations. Selected from the finest fancies of moderne muses
Section: Outlandish PROVERBS.
Publication info: London : Printed by R[ichard] H[odgkinson and Thomas
Paine] for Humphry Blunden at the Castle in Corn-hill
Database: Early English Books Online

[Begin excerpt]
652. Shew me a lyer, and ile shew thee a theefe.
[End excerpt]

H. L. Mencken (and another reference) give earlier citations in the
1600s, but I do not know the precise spelling and phrasing. Mencken
seems to give a modernized version.

[Begin excerpt]
Show me a liar, and I will show thee a thief.
THOMAS ADAMS: Sermon, 1629
[End excerpt]

The 1673 citation below contains another phrase fitting the template.

Year: 1673
Title: Counsellor Manners, his last legacy to his son enriched and
embellished with grave adviso's, pat histories, and ingenious
proverbs, apologues, and apophthegms
Author: Dare, Josiah, 17th cent.
Publication info: London : Printed for Edward Gough and are to be sold
by most booksellers in London
Database: Early English Books Online

[Begin excerpt]
For as we say, Shew me a Lyer, and I will shew thee a Thief; so we may
say, Shew me a common Swearer, and I will shew thee a common Lyer
[End excerpt]

I do not have access to the scans, so the data above is from the
publicly accessible database.
Garson

On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 8:31 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> More:
> 1855 _Hartford Daily Courant_ (Dec. 27)  2: "Show me a Loco, gentlemen,"
> said he, "and I'll show you a liar!"
>
> 1859 Ibid. (Oct. 31) 2: An exchange says it was a remark of Dr. Waddell,
> "show me a boy with a horse, dog and gun, and I'll show you a boy who will
> never come to anything."
>  JL
>
> On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 5:39 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Here is a good precursor match for "Show me a good loser and I'll show
> > you a loser" that is a bit earlier.
> >
> > Date: April 2, 1963
> > Newspaper: San Francisco Chronicle
> > Newspaper Location: San Francisco, California
> > Article: Smile When You Call Him Sport
> > Author: Bob Stevens
> > Quote Page 44, Column 8
> > Database: GenealogyBank
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a consistent loser.
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > Garson
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 5:07 PM ADSGarson O'Toole
> > <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser" has matches in 1963
> > > as indicated in my previous message. When I explored the saying I did
> > > find a close precursor in 1960.
> > >
> > > The quotation below is from coach Carl Rees of the University of
> > Pittsburgh.
> > >
> > > Date: April 17, 1960
> > > Newspaper: The Pittsburgh Press
> > > Newspaper Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
> > > Article: Och Tires of Losing, Shot Records Suffer
> > > Author: Roy McHugh
> > > Section 3, Quote Page 3, Column 5
> > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > >
> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.newspapers.com_image_141354180_-3Fterms-3Dloser&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=m6wOe2P9iVMKm5cZJSVngXj-MgeTBk4YMdM_mCZvjvM&s=DxNojZj5axFi-BvRIw7I_DdrtpUgi5fKDgkWYJ4PehI&e=
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a guy who is going to lose
> > > most of the time," he volunteered.
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > > Garson
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 4:50 PM ADSGarson O'Toole
> > > <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > > > > Of interest:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1969 _Springfield_ [Mass.] _Union_ (May 7) 12: Clue to Student
> > Anger: 'A
> > > > > Good Loser is a Loser' ... The [student] sign [at Princeton] said,
> > 'Show me
> > > > > a Good Loser and I'll Show You a Loser.'
> > > > > . . .
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your response, JL. Barry Popik has an entry on this general
> > > > topic. There are many variant expressions. I linked to Barry's piece
> > > > in my original ADS post and at the end of the QI article. (My QI
> > > > article was focused on the early Zuppke quotation.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.barrypopik.com_index.php_new-5Fyork-5Fcity_entry_show-5Fme-5Fa-5Fgood-5Floser-5Fand-5Fill-5Fshow-5Fyou-5Fa-5Floser&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=m6wOe2P9iVMKm5cZJSVngXj-MgeTBk4YMdM_mCZvjvM&s=0cj43Fv7qSpz-YohLR0-H_SAuhYWCldb6TtBxOiUHdw&e=
> > > >
> > > > [Begin excerpt from Barry's article]
> > > > 21 June 1963, Life magazine, pg. 87, col. 2:
> > > > “Hell,” he (Frankie Albert, an All-American quarterback—ed.) says, “in
> > > > football we were out to kill the opponent. Show me a good loser and
> > > > I’ll show you a loser.”
> > > > [End excerpt]
> > > >
> > > > Garson
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=m6wOe2P9iVMKm5cZJSVngXj-MgeTBk4YMdM_mCZvjvM&s=zgcUz7hjChqUSGUwG3iMe1icTicJNpGO9LqklECbLso&e=
> >
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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