[Ads-l] Hep: Gerald Cohen's publication and the 7 earliest uses known to me

Thu Feb 6 22:26:54 UTC 2020

"he'll get it where Fannie wears the fichu"

Pretty clear it's kick in the seat of the pants, but fichu started as a
lace covering for the bodice and moved to become a lace shawl thing and, I
imagine, by the time we get to 1909's "Diary of a Showgirl"
https://books.google.com/books?id=D4MRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=where+Fannie+wears+the+fichu&source=bl&ots=Xo15y5qw1X&sig=ACfU3U36pTHo6ru7uQTOjmXh8Vd6I2xAbw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiJoIqJ-b3nAhWV9Z4KHVVLAY8Q6AEwBHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=where%20Fannie%20wears%20the%20fichu&f=false

(a certain amount of track slang all around the cite) it's worn long enough
down the back to make a proper target ... at least when Fanny wears it that
way.
"to hind the 2-cross to the phony layer"
"he kicks the favorite out from the rap of the drum

No luck.
"by the difference between the Central and Rocky Mountain time"

Not just by a nose then.

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 3:36 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for your responses LH and Fred. I have not studied this topic;
> hence, I do not currently have an opinion. I shared the citation for
> "he'p" because I thought it might be pertinent and helpful.
>
> Here is a 1907 citation featuring slang from the racetrack domain.
> "GOT HEP" and "gets hep" seem to mean "gained knowledge".
>
> In the text below the word "someody" is probably a misspelling of
> "somebody".
>
> Date: February 18, 1907
> Newspaper: Buffalo Evening News
> Newspaper Location: Buffalo, New York
> Article: Terse Sport Tidings: Race Track Slang As Slung By Ullman
> Quote Page 8, Column 1
>
> [Begin excerpt - please double-check]
> SOMEBODY GOT HEP.
>
> "'But someody in the judges' stand gets hep, and the kid is warned
> that if he doesn't fetch the short odds clomper home, he'll get it
> where Fannie wears the fichu, and of course there's nothing else for
> him to do but to hind the 2-cross to the phony layer, and he kicks the
> favorite out from the rap of the drum and fetches him down to the wire
> by the difference between the Central and Rocky Mountain time, . . .
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
> On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 4:13 PM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > I have not seen Jerry's publication, nor until this moment ever given
> any thought to the etymology of "hep," but I agree with Larry's
> characterization of this theory of the etymology of "hep" as "a fairly
> healthy leap."  Indeed, I would go further and opine that the "he'p"
> etymology strikes me as very unlikely.
> >
> > Of the 7 earliest uses known to Stephen, only one of them makes any
> sense if one substitutes the word "help" for "hep."  "Help" is not even the
> same part of speech as "hep."
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2020 2:58 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: Hep: Gerald Cohen's publication and the 7 earliest uses
> known to me
> >
> > > On Feb 6, 2020, at 2:37 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
> adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> > >
> > > Gerald Cohen's may already have several examples of the following.
> > > In 1892 several newspapers printed a story that employed the
> > > dialectical spelling "get he'p" for "get help".
> > >
> > > Date: August 04, 1892
> > > Newspaper: Weekly Breeze (Monroeville Breeze)
> > > Newspaper Location: Monroeville, Indiana
> > > Article: His Change of Heart
> > > Quote Page 3, Column 2
> > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > >
> > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > Thar wasn't nobody in reach, so I couldn't get he'p. Jest 'fore he
> > > died he give me that money an' made me promise to take it to his
> > > father.
> > > [End excerpt]
> > >
> > > Garson
> >
> > OK, but it’s still a fairly healthy leap from this compositional use,
> where he’p = help, to the one where “(get) hep” = ‘get wise’.  When Timmy
> told Lassie to get he(l)p, he wasn’t trying to make sure she was  with it
> or au courant.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 1:23 PM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I now have a copy of Gerald Cohen, "Hep/Hip Again" from Comments on
> Etymology, May, 2018, pages 43-45.
> > >>
> > >> If I may quote two sentences from page 43:
> > >> "_Hep_ probably derives from the Southern variant form of _help_,
> viz. _hep_.
> > >> A jazz player whose playing was weak might have been advised to "get
> hep" (i.e., help); such help/tutoring from an experienced jazz player could
> make a great difference."
> > >>
> > >> I agree with the first sentence. And Jerry got there before I did!
> > >>
> > >> I am currently a bit less in agreement with the second sentence. One
> reason is that, as far as the earliest examples go (see below, some not
> reported here before), no music setting (much less jazz) seems to obtain,
> at least early on. Nor a circus setting, etc.
> > >> More to come. Comments (pro or con or otherwise) welcome.
> > >> ***
> > >>
> > >> 1899, Feb. 12, Sunday, The Times, Washington, DC.  p. 13, col. 2.
> > >> The Night Hawk's Woes.  The Cabbie Details his Sorrows to the Copper.
> (From the Chicago Chronicle) [1, whole article available online]
> > >> <start quote, cabman speaking>
> > >> Cold? On the dead, it was colder in that kitchen than any of them
> Klondike suckers
> > >> ever heard about. An' as soon as I get out I'm hep that the water's
> froze.
> > >> <end quote>
> > >>
> > >> 1902, Jan. 3, Fri. , The Republic, St. Louis, MO p. 6 col. 2
> > >> In a race track scheme story with "slang." Here, "man of mines" is a
> long-shot bettor rich from lead and zinc mining.
> > >> <start>
> > >> The understanding that Fessenden had was that he was to get $800 of
> the plunder for putting the man of mines "hep to the good thing."
> > >> <end>
> > >>
> > >> 1903, July 6, Evening World, NY,  10/7 " Allow me, please, to put you
> hep to this oceanside thing."
> > >>
> > >> 1903, Sept 21, Evening World, NY, [someone upon seeing a supposedly
> French Waiter] " slinging hash or wearing livery gets hep."
> > >>
> > >> 1903, Nov. 25,  Evening World, NY, 8/5  "....With your kind
> permission and attention I'll put you hep to the finish."
> > >>
> > >> 1904, Sept. 2, Evening World, NY "I was put hep to the scenario"
> > >>
> > >> 1905 "...for not having put him hep to the way things had been
> standing with me."
> > >>
> > >> Stephen Goranson
> > >>
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fpeople.duke.edu%2F~goranson%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40yale.edu%7Cd0fd9fb76c86409ad18a08d7ab3f0061%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637166159384280677&sdata=vSSbbwR%2FiiuTMrAA7b22jTfxmnsq0ycS%2BGSeZirx1ZM%3D&reserved=0
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> The American Dialect Society -
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.americandialect.org&data=02%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40yale.edu%7Cd0fd9fb76c86409ad18a08d7ab3f0061%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637166159384280677&sdata=Bj%2Ff%2Bk47FosBwp%2B1JEJkTv0FuWvwpJ1PDhrl4bnzBNk%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society -
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.americandialect.org&data=02%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40yale.edu%7Cd0fd9fb76c86409ad18a08d7ab3f0061%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637166159384280677&sdata=Bj%2Ff%2Bk47FosBwp%2B1JEJkTv0FuWvwpJ1PDhrl4bnzBNk%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society -
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.americandialect.org&data=02%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40yale.edu%7Cd0fd9fb76c86409ad18a08d7ab3f0061%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637166159384280677&sdata=Bj%2Ff%2Bk47FosBwp%2B1JEJkTv0FuWvwpJ1PDhrl4bnzBNk%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

-- 

a

Andy Bach,
afbach at gmail.com
608 658-1890 cell
608 261-5738 wk

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org