[Ads-l] monkey in the middle (1952)

Mon Jan 27 18:38:52 UTC 2020

If it were played in Southern Illinois (aka Little Egypt), saluki would be more probable - and the saluki is the Southern Illinois University mascot.  I doubt that as NY kids we'd ever heard of them and our parents, immigrants and children of immigrants, even less so.

----------------------------
MARGARET E WINTERS
Former Provost
Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics
Wayne State University
Detroit, MI  48202

mewinters at wayne.edu

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From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 1:32 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: monkey in the middle (1952)

Wild guess: from Saluki hunting dog, alternate spelling Salugi??

SG

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Mark Mandel <markamandel at GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 1:25 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ADS-L] monkey in the middle (1952)

My demographics for this are close to Laurence's in space though later in
time: Manhattan, Upper West Side, circa 80s-90s (West *n*th Streets, not
decades; those were early sixties for me), including where I lived and the
K-12 school I attended, both in the first block from Central Park West.
Also, like Laurence, a group of boys only, with me as the nerdy victim.

Now that you mention it, Wilson, I do remember the name "Saluggi", though
it was a long time till I learned a way to spell it. There are several;
Barry Popik, an indefatigable and reliable investigator of word and
expression histories (as I'm sure you all know), has an article about it on
his website at
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.barrypopik.com_index.php_new-5Fyork-5Fcity_entry_salugi-5For-5Fsaloogie&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=Pnx6tgUh5IUlTQKkSQ7Dn8o_2lz49zPGiXI2uHIO9IU&s=Q23hhWARxSAW3601DIaZW_r6ymGn3Um7ahP_XfIioyY&e= .

Saluggi's, I find, is the name of a restaurant/pizzeria in New York with a
couple of locations (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.saluggis.com&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=Pnx6tgUh5IUlTQKkSQ7Dn8o_2lz49zPGiXI2uHIO9IU&s=c7Z_R3WB9EKvOrRPRNl3oeNUuKw1T1trWoLGrJpZz3o&e= ), but I haven't seen anything
on their website about the name itself, and the "game" is probably much,
much older than the chain.

Mark Mandel

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 10:27 AM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:

> > On Jan 27, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Margaret Winters <mewinters at WAYNE.EDU>
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm pretty sure we didn't have anything called "Saluggi" - but I'm
> remembering about a decade later, Brooklyn instead of Washington Heights,
> maybe just for boys…??
>
> Our group was indeed just boys, but I don’t know if there was a crucial
> gender divide. My previous dialectological inquiries (i.e. asking random
> people my age who grew up in NYC) do suggest a localized use within
> Manhattan extending to the east side as well as Washington Heights, but I
> don’t have enough data points to propose an isogloss.
> >
> > ----------------------------
> > MARGARET E WINTERS
> > Former Provost
> > Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics
> > Wayne State University
> > Detroit, MI  48202

> ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 10:07 AM
> >
> > Hunh.  For me, b. 1945 NYC, growing up in Washington Heights, there were
> not two versions of a single game, but two very different “games”. The
> actual game was Monkey-in-the-MIddle (aka Keepaway).  The one where you
> (not me) take something from a younger or vulnerable kid (sometimes me),
> perhaps a hat or a baseball glove, and pass it back and forth among your
> confederates, was Saluggi.  At least that’s how I’d spell it, given what I
> remember about its pronunciation at the time.  So you could say “Let’s play
> Monkey-in-the-MIddle/Keepaway, I’ll be it”.  But you could not, in the
> early to mid 1950s, call “Let’s play Saluggi, I’ll be it”.  Barring
> clinical masochism, I suppose, but we didn’t know from that.
> >
> > LH
> >
> >
> >> On Jan 27, 2020, at 7:48 AM, Geoffrey Nathan <geoffnathan at WAYNE.EDU>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Like Margaret and Mark I remember the quote game unquote, and not with
> fondness. I only remember
> >> the malicious version, and I, being the nerdy kid, was usually the
> victim. Again, early sixties.
> >>
> >> Geoff
> >>
> >> Geoffrey S. Nathan
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__blogs.wayne.edu_proftech_&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=Pnx6tgUh5IUlTQKkSQ7Dn8o_2lz49zPGiXI2uHIO9IU&s=B-9VeIAwoXlp6YN7X7eAp64-EqqO0UPVdZovtOKddps&e=
> >> geoffnathan at wayne.edu
> >>
> >> From: Mark Mandel<mailto:markamandel at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 12:52 AM
> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Subject: Re: monkey in the middle (1952)
> ----------------------
> >>
> >> I do not like the memories this brings up in me.
> >>
> >> I knew the expression all too well as a schoolboy in New York in the
> 1960s.
> >> After school some of my classmates would play this "game" (also called
> >> "keep-away") with my hat or other possession snatched from me, yelling
> >> "Monkey in the middle!" as they threw my property to each other over my
> >> head and I ran frantically between them, trying in vain to reach one of
> >> them before they could throw it out of my reach.
> >>
> >> MAM
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 6:08 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The children's game "monkey in the middle" is in OED3 (Sept. 2002
> update)
> >>> from 1980. Here are some cites from New Jersey newspapers in the '50s.
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.newspapers.com_clip_43065809_monkey-5Fin-5Fthe-5Fmiddle_&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=Pnx6tgUh5IUlTQKkSQ7Dn8o_2lz49zPGiXI2uHIO9IU&s=mhm1fApsfUPdxBA1cs67gvEmwRzv0z7EdUN8qH1wwSM&e=
> >>> Belleville (NJ) Times, July 24, 1952, p. 6, col. 6
> >>> Mrs. Virtue, one of our directors, made up some five bean bags, and
> taught
> >>> us the game "monkey in the middle." It sure has had great success and
> is
> >>> enjoyed by youngsters of all ages.
> >>> ---
> >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.newspapers.com_clip_43065650_monkey-5Fin-5Fthe-5Fmiddle_&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=Pnx6tgUh5IUlTQKkSQ7Dn8o_2lz49zPGiXI2uHIO9IU&s=9ie13wBSizcFPLk8pX7ahP0QsHW4bifxGZE7ttaj2ig&e=
> >>> Verona-Cedar Grove (NJ) Times, July 28, 1955, p. 2, col. 5
> >>> Despite the heat wave the children seemed to have quite an active week
> on
> >>> the Forest Avenue playground. Although checkers, kings, Chinese
> checkers.
> >>> Mad Maze, Lucky Shot and horseshoes were the most popular, there were
> still
> >>> some badminton, softball, dodge ball, spud and Monkey in the Middle
> games.
> >>> ---
> >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.newspapers.com_clip_43053896_monkey-5Fin-5Fthe-5Fmiddle_&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=Pnx6tgUh5IUlTQKkSQ7Dn8o_2lz49zPGiXI2uHIO9IU&s=9KggYCg3iCBBcj3z9j1vbFX90YTU1Uva5oetpmPI9Xk&e=
> >>> Courier-News (Plainfield, NJ), June 11, 1957, p. 25, col. 1
> >>> More than 200 children and their parents participated in the annual
> picnic
> >>> and field day of the Hebrew Institute held Sunday at Green Brook
> Park...
> >>> Awards in games were as follows: Relay -- Jay Cherlow, Jack Ruden,
> Larry
> >>> Sletzinger, Joel Taub, Jonathan Lippman, Mark Hitzig, Marilyn Siegel;
> nut
> >>> potato race, Jay Lichtenstein; Monkey in the Middle, Joy Herzog...
> [etc.]
> >>> ---
> >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.newspapers.com_clip_43059206_monkey-5Fin-5Fthe-5Fmiddle_&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=uUVa-8oDL2EzfbuMuowoUadHHcJ7pjul6iFkS5Pd--8&m=Pnx6tgUh5IUlTQKkSQ7Dn8o_2lz49zPGiXI2uHIO9IU&s=Z-eqB1dJHoMa7ogylQBVVZwQn3Vel0wpQjYFIrfhvoI&e=
> >>> The Millburn & Short Hills (NJ) Item, July 11, 1957, p. 6, col. 4
> >>> The middle age group have a variety of games: volley ball, relay races
> >>> (which are very exciting), giant steps, monkey in the middle, red
> light,
> >>> red rover, and checkers. The wee ones have two favorite games, which
> they
> >>> play constantly: Simon Says, and Duck, Duck, Goose.
> >>> ---
> >>>
> >>> --bgz
>

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