[Ads-l] "Say good night, Gracie"

Fri Jul 17 08:18:37 UTC 2020

Gracie's simple "goodnight" ending reminds me (maybe) of Gilda Radner as Roseanne Roseannadanna in a stream of urgent digressive news commentary, interrupted with a correction, saying "nevermind."

Stephen G.
________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 12:10 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Say good night, Gracie"

I remember a shot of the Ruby shoes at the end, too. The networks played a
lot of games over the years, expanding (fewer ads) and contracting (more
ads) the run time of the movie. I believe that end shot was never in the
theatrical cut, but was added for TV.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 9:02 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:

> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > From: dave at WILTON.NET
> > Subject: Re: "Say good night, Gracie"
> > Date: July 16, 2020 at 3:22:09 PM EDT
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >
> > Sounds to me like an example of the "Mandela effect." A shared false
> memory.
> > Named after a widespread memory among many people of watching news
> reports
> > of Nelson Mandela's death in prison in the 1990s.
>
> Or the powerful memory the end of The Wizard of Oz of the camera panning
> on Dorothy’s ruby slippers--still red, and now under her bed, when she’s
> back in Kansas.  A friend claims that she and others remember this
> distinctly, and that this must have been removed from the VCR and DVD
> prints now extant…
>
>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> On Behalf Of
> Stephen
> > Goranson
> > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 9:15 AM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "Say good night, Gracie"
> >
> > Somewhat related guess: if Gracie Allen had said that, at least on the
> radio
> > or TV, someone would likely have remarked about it and that remark been
> > found by now. Also, if it had been funny once, wouldn't they likely
> repeat
> > that?
> >
> > Somewhat related search issue: deciding whether "say uncle" really came
> from
> > a *parrot* joke, and if so, why no certain (or, uncontested) evidence
> until
> > decades later?
> >
> > Somewhat related shtick, reportedly from The Three Stooges in
> > "Micro-Phonies" in 1945:
> > Alice: I Hear the voice of spring anew (Opera sings)
> > Moe: Hey boys, I must be dead,I hear an angel singin'
> > Alice: Love is like a flower.
> > Curly: My Nyuk,Nyuk,Nyuk ain't she pretty?
> > Moe: Boy, you can say that again!
> > Curly: My Nyuk,Nyuk,Nyuk ain't she pretty?
> > Moe: Shut up!(Moe hits Curly)
> > Curly: You said I could!
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> > ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 5:31 AM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: "Say good night, Gracie"
> >
> > Interesting topic, Ben. George Burns stated that the dialog was a myth in
> > his 1988 book "Gracie: A Love Story".
> >
> > [ref] 1988, Gracie: A Love Story by George Burns, Chapter 5, Quote Page
> 161,
> > G. P. Putnam's Sons, New York. (Verified with scans) [/ref]
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > It's a show-business myth that Gracie replied to my request to "Say
> > goodnight, Gracie," by saying, "Good night, Gracie." In fact, that's
> > probably one of the most misquoted lines in theater history. Maybe she
> said
> > it once, but I don't even remember that. She simply said, "Good night."
> > There were many reasons for that, the main one was that I just never
> thought
> > of "Good night, Gracie." And now that I've thought of it, from now on she
> > will have said it.
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > Someone compiled dozens of video segments showing the sign-off dialog
> during
> > which George Burns says, "Say good night, Gracie", "Gracie, say good
> night",
> > or simply "Say goodnight". Gracie Burns never replied with the widely
> > attributed punchline within these two compilations.
> >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k877AgQR0Ws__;
> !!
> > OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIWVNQdk_$
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hNqmuTvbik__;
> !!
> > OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIZOpsDk9$
> >
> > Ben gives a template:
> >
> > Person A: "Say good night, X"
> > Person B: "Goodnight X.
> >
> > This is an instance of a more general template:
> >
> > Person A: "Say, X"
> > Person B: "X"
> >
> > Person A: "Tell me, X"
> > Person B: "X"
> >
> > Examples:
> > Person A: "Say you love me"
> > Person B: "You love me"
> >
> > Person A: "Please tell me you are happy."
> > Person B: "You are happy."
> >
> > To my ear this sounds like vaudeville-style humor; probably earlier.
> > But I haven't been able to determine a search pattern to uncover
> citations.
> >
> > Garson
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:12 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Perhaps Garson or one of our other quote-meisters could help figure
> >> this one out.
> >>
> >> Wikipedia currently has the following unsourced section in its Gracie
> >> Allen biography about the famous "Say good night, Gracie" exchange
> >> associated with her and George Burns.
> >>
> >> ----
> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracie_Allen
> >> **A22Say_good_night,_Gracie*22__;IyUl!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrx
> >> ilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIdfjERgG$
> >> The legend was born of their vaudeville routine and carried over to
> >> both radio and television. As the show wrapped up, Burns would look at
> >> Allen and say "Say good night, Gracie", to which she would usually
> >> simply reply "Good night." But popular legend has it that she would say,
> > "Good night, Gracie."
> >> According to George Burns, recordings of their radio and television
> >> shows, and several histories of old-time radio (John Dunning's On the
> >> Air: The Encyclopedia of Old-Time Radio, for example), Gracie never used
> > the phrase.
> >> The confusion may have been caused by Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In. Stars
> >> Dan Rowan and Dick Martin used a similar sign-off routine wherein
> >> Rowan would tell Martin to "Say good night, Dick." Martin's reply was
> >> always "Good night, Dick." It seemed like something Gracie Allen would
> > have said.
> >> George Burns himself said as much in an interview years later, adding
> >> that, surprisingly enough, no one ever thought of having Allen say
> >> "Good night, Gracie". However, the former Burns and Allen head writer,
> >> Paul Henning, did use the "say good night" bit in at least one episode
> >> of The Beverly Hillbillies ("The Richest Woman", aired January 5,
> >> 1966, two years before Laugh-In premiered. JED: "Say good night,
> >> Jethro." JETHRO: "Good night,
> >> Jethro.")
> >> ----
> >>
> >> A quick check of the newspaper databases reveals that the "Say good
> >> night, Gracie" bit was associated with Burns & Allen before 1966. The
> >> earliest clear-cut example I found, giving the full exchange, appeared
> >> after Allen's death in 1964, in an unsigned editorial that ran in
> >> several papers with the headline "Good Night, Gracie":
> >>
> >> ----
> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.newspapers.com/clip/55325610/s
> >> ay-good-night-gracie/__;!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-N
> >> SUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIRBjfz5E$ Marion (Ohio) Star, Aug. 29, 1964, p. 6,
> >> col. 2 How was it George used to say, "Say goodnight, Gracie"? And she
> >> would say, "Goodnight, Gracie." And all of us repeat it now, with a
> >> lump in the throat, "Goodnight, Gracie." We loved you, too.
> >> ----
> >>
> >> Another unsigned editorial, headlined "Say Good Night, Gracie," is
> >> similar in form, but it doesn't explicitly say that Allen would
> >> respond to Burns's "Say good night, Gracie" with "Good night, Gracie":
> >>
> >> ----
> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.newspapers.com/clip/55325638/s
> >> ay-good-night-gracie/__;!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-N
> >> SUKKlLZciQumZ9-wAXjIeGehImj$ Cincinnati Enquirer, Sep. 3, 1964, p. 6,
> >> col. 1 Her humor, refreshing and wholesome, is very nearly a lost
> >> commodity these days. George, of course, was the perfect fall guy
> >> whose only escape from Gracie's logic was the team's signature line of
> >> "Say good night, Gracie!"
> >> ----
> >>
> >> Likewise, when Allen retired from television in 1958, a headline
> >> included "Good night, Gracie" with no indication of the full exchange:
> >>
> >> ----
> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.newspapers.com/clip/55325587/g
> >> ood-night-gracie/__;!!OToaGQ!_43GsP5PnNUmHzHjvGfnHCrxilCqL2v5g5A-NSUKK
> >> lLZciQumZ9-wAXjIXTpfkWT$ Indianapolis News, Feb. 22, 1958, p. 7, col.
> >> 2 Good Night, Gracie George Finally to Get His Own Laughs
> >> ----
> >>
> >> This would all still fit with the claim on Wikipedia, that the
> >> exchange between Burns & Allen was actually "Say good night, Gracie" /
> > "Good night,"
> >> and only after the fact was Allen's response remembered as "Good
> >> night, Gracie." So, was the line misremembered that way before Allen's
> >> death in 1964? And were there other instances of the "Say good night,
> >> X" / "Good night, X" gag predating "The Beverly Hillbillies" and
> >> "Laugh-In" that could have reinforced the idea that Allen used the same
> > formula?
> >>
> >> --bgz
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
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