[Ads-l] bawdy = 'rowdily humorous; slapstick'

Sat Jan 23 00:16:45 UTC 2021

> Note to students: in those days, anything stronger than the relatively
discreet Playboy was considered unsavory or worse

Bawdy even?

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:03 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Yeah, and they also said the song was written for an "orgy club."
>
> As a point of no interest, when I was in college in the early '70s, a
> friend of mine mentioned that he had "heard" that Key's poem was based on a
> drinking song that was "pretty bawdy."
>
> So the story that the national anthem's origin was in something unsavory or
> worse goes back for at least half a century.
>
> (Note to students: in those days, anything stronger than the relatively
> discreet Playboy was considered unsavory or worse. And even Playboy was
> suspect in some circles....)
>
> JL
>
>
> JL
>
> JL
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 6:01 PM Andy Bach <afbach at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Well, it’s gone to pornographic on Qura:
> > [review of Lady Gag’s rendition] “She even made me forget that the tune
> is
> > taken from a pornographic 18th C English drinking song.”
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 5:19 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Oooh!  "Entwine"!  Just reading the word gives me a thrill.
> > >
> > > Not.
> > >
> > > Maybe the term people are groping for (sorry for the indecency) is
> > > "suggestive."
> > >
> > > So perhaps 'suggestive' is another new meaning of "bawdy."  (Like
> > > 'surprised' is the latest meaning of "shocked.")
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 4:37 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > According to the L.A. Times, the key word is “entwine”, from the line
> > > >
> > > > ‘I’ll instruct you, like me to entwine; The myrtle of Venus with
> > > Bacchus’s
> > > > vine’
> > > >
> > > > Since as the newspaper helpfully points out,
> > > >
> > > > '“entwine” is defined in any dictionary’.
> > > >
> > > > —although they acknowledge the sexual allusion is “understated”.
> > > >
> > > > So I guess we’re quibbling with that periodical over the threshold of
> > > what
> > > > counts as “sex”, and therefore as “bawdy”. (I can’t count the number
> of
> > > pix
> > > > I’ve received in which two kittens qualify as lying entwined in what
> > I’ve
> > > > always taken to be a platonic way.) Maybe it should be the L.A. Times
> > > > rather than its N.Y. cousin that qualifies as the Gray Lady.
> > > >
> > > > LH
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Jan 21, 2021, at 2:49 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> > wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Reading the lyrics reveals nothing bawdy to me (i.e., 'humorously
> > > > indecent;
> > > > > obscene; lewd'). Nor is the L.A. Times a reliable guide to 18th
> > century
> > > > > poesy.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyone capable of writing the lyrics - written for a convivial
> > singers'
> > > > > club ("Sons of Harmony") - would know that the myrtle was sacred to
> > > > Venus,
> > > > > goddess of love, and that Bacchus was the god of wine (in poetic
> > > > language,
> > > > > often "the vine").
> > > > >
> > > > > The singers want the spirit of Anacreon to help them harmonize
> about
> > > love
> > > > > and wine in a conventional neo-classic manner, and the beauty of
> > their
> > > > > singing is irresistible to the gods. If someone gets horny reading
> > the
> > > > poem
> > > > > (or singing the song), that's their problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > Because if the harmonizers want also to fuck around, they don't say
> > so
> > > > > here. And they could easily find ways to do so, with or without
> > > > Anacreon's
> > > > > assistance.
> > > > >
> > > > > JL
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 1:56 PM Barretts Mail <
> > mail.barretts at gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> FWIW, the Wikipedia article is at
> > > > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anacreontic_Song <
> > > > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anacreontic_Song>. While
> > frequently
> > > > not
> > > > >> followed, original research is prohibited on Wikipedia as it is a
> > > > >> tertiary-sourced encyclopedia.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The comment about the song being bawdy is not sourced, so that is
> > > > original
> > > > >> research, but I think "To Anacreon in Heav’n” is clearly bawdy
> even
> > if
> > > > >> judged by today’s standards.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ###
> > > > >> "And, besides I'll instruct you, like me, to intwine
> > > > >> "The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine.”
> > > > >> ###
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The LA Times says that the song is a paean to drinking and sex (
> > > > >> https://tinyurl.com/y4nv6xbp <https://tinyurl.com/y4nv6xbp>).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Benjamin Barrett (he/his/him)
> > > > >> Formerly of Seattle, WA
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On 21 Jan 2021, at 04:54, Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Wikipedia considers the turgid English song, "To Anacreon in
> > Heav'n"
> > > > >>> (ca.1770), to be "bawdy":
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> "The song, through its bawdy lyrics, gained popularity in London
> > and
> > > > >>> elsewhere beyond the Anacreontic Society."
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> The lyrics irreverently and humorously imagine the enthusiasm of
> > the
> > > > gods
> > > > >>> to desert Olympus and join the harmonious singers of the
> > Anacreontic
> > > > >>> Society, against the wishes of Zeus.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> (N.b., a Brit at Quora.com assured followers that the U.S.
> national
> > > > >> anthem
> > > > >>> was based on a "pornographic song," but nothing could be less
> > > > >> pornographic
> > > > >>> than a bunch of drunks trying to sing these lyrics to the same
> > melody
> > > > as
> > > > >>> the "Star-Spangled Banner.")
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> JL
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > > > truth."
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> > --
> > Andy Bach
> > Afbach at gmail.com
> > Not at my desk
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

-- 

a

Andy Bach,
afbach at gmail.com
608 658-1890 cell
608 261-5738 wk

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