[Ads-l] Ur ("prototypical")

[Chris Waigl]

I was trying to trace back urtext (extremely common word, not only in
scholarly circles but for example among classical musicians as in "urtext
edition of [piece]") in English via Google Books. I find some from the late
1800s, but the vast majority of earlier hits are in German (even if I
remove German from the result languages list).

Ur- is still quite a productive prefix in German, and present in a long
list of dictionary words. One of them being Urinstinkt ("ancestral
instinct"), which comes with a warning against end-of-line separation in
the middle (ie. avoid Urin-stinkt).

Chris

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 8:07 AM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:

> You'll find the "ur-" prefix in many other dictionaries with the same
> "primitive, proto-" meaning. It's a borrowing from German (as in
> "Ursprache"), and the Germanic root isn't etymologically related to the
> name of the city Ur. OED2 has examples in English back to 1889, but it goes
> back much further in German. AHD takes it back to the PIE root "*ud-"
> meaning "up, out."
>
> https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=ur-
> https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/indoeurop.html#IR122000
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 11:27 AM Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Wiktionary has this as a prefix
> >
> > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur-#Prefix <
> > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ur-#Prefix>
> > Forming words with the sense of “proto-, primitive, original”.
> >
> > Two citations are provided, from 2003 and 2007.
> >
> > Derived terms with definitions provided are:
> > urelement
> > ur-form
> > ur-poem
> > ur-text
> >
> > BB
> >
> > > On 31 Mar 2021, at 08:20, Barretts Mail <mail.barretts at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Merriam-Webster (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ur <
> > https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ur>) defines “Ur” as a city
> of
> > ancient Sumer. Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur <
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur>) says Ur was founded c. 3800 BCE.
> > >
> > > One of the “Making of” DVDs of the “Lord of the Rings” has a usage in
> > which Ur is used as a metaphor, but I’m too lazy to try to find it
> again. I
> > believe it was about the concept of the Ur-legend; that is, a
> prototypical
> > or ancient source from which later legends and stories derive.
> > >
> > > It seems to be generally agreed that Uruk was founded before Ur:
> > >
> > > https://www.ancient.eu/uruk/ <https://www.ancient.eu/uruk/>
> > > World History Encyclopedia
> > >
> > > ###
> > > The city of Uruk is most famous for its great king Gilgamesh and the
> > epic tale of his quest for immortality but also for a number of `firsts'
> in
> > the development of civilization which occurred there.
> > >
> > > It is considered the first true city in the world, ….
> > > ###
> > > ###
> > >
> > > If Uruk is older than Ur and is home to the Gilgamesh myth, why is it
> > used to mean “ancient source” instead of Uruk? I can only speculate that
> > perhaps it’s because Abraham’s birthplace is given in Genesis as Ur
> Kasdim.
> > >
> > > Here are additional examples using “Ur" as a prefix to mean
> > “prototypical” or “primeval”:
> > >
> > > 1. https://tinyurl.com/33hbwm86 <https://tinyurl.com/33hbwm86>
> > > Lord of the Geeks
> > > Andrew Leonard
> > > 31 Dec 2002
> > >
> > > I take this meaning to be “primitive/fundamental” but it’s not clear.
> > >
> > > ###
> > > Progress in computing can be judged by how well the state of the art
> > enables the evocation of that Ur-territory of dwarves and goblins.
> > > ###
> > > ###
> > >
> > > 2. https://tinyurl.com/cms4sdaf <https://tinyurl.com/cms4sdaf>
> > > Here Be Blank Spaces: Vaguely Medieval Fantasy Maps
> > > Jonathan Crowe
> > > Aug 2013 (original publication date)
> > >
> > > ###
> > > The Lord of the Rings doesn’t just give us the ur-text of modern
> > fantasy; it also gives us, in its map of the western part of
> Middle-earth,
> > the ur-map: the progenitor map from which the modern fantasy map design
> is
> > descended.
> > > ###
> > > ###
> > >
> > > 3. https://tinyurl.com/8ujfuxd4 <https://tinyurl.com/8ujfuxd4>
> > > "Recreating the World with Words: J. R. R. Tolkien’s Beowulf and The
> > Lord of the Rings”
> > > Yun Ni
> > > c. 2017
> > >
> > > ###
> > > Apart from a systematic examination on the history of Middle-earth, a
> > comparative study of Old English and Tolkien’s fantasy Elvish languages,
> > especially Quenya and Sindarin, will explore the connection between a
> > hypothesized ur-language and its concomitant worldview.
> > > ###
> > > ###
> > >
> > > 4. https://tinyurl.com/ydy2r4hz <https://tinyurl.com/ydy2r4hz>
> > > Millions Are Hounded for Debt They Don’t Owe. One Victim Fought Back,
> > With a Vengeance
> > > Zeke Faux
> > > 6 Dec 2017 (original posting date)
> > >
> > > “ultimate (source)"
> > >
> > > ###
> > > His search for the ur-source rarely traveled in a straight line.
> > > ###
> > > ###
> > >
> > > 5. https://tinyurl.com/dk5ssjkc <https://tinyurl.com/dk5ssjkc>
> > > Post-Classical Fantasy Cinema: The Lord of the Rings
> > > I. Q. Hunter
> > > 6 Sep 2018
> > >
> > > ###
> > > ...successful screenplays were variations on a twelve-stage Hero’s
> > Journey model. A good film reworked this Jungian ur-narrative within the
> > standard Three Act structure…
> > > ###
> > > ###
> > >
> > > 6. https://tinyurl.com/2xvjxxrz <https://tinyurl.com/2xvjxxrz>
> > > Matt Gaetz has zero interest in being in Congress
> > > Chris Cillizza
> > > 30 Mar 2021
> > >
> > > “prototypical” though meaning “perfect example”
> > >
> > > ###
> > > Now, many newly elected Republican House members see a seat in Congress
> > as a means to a more lucrative end -- a chance to build their, uh, brand,
> > widen their fundraising base and raise their profile in order to get the
> > real prize: A well-paying gig on a conservative media network.
> > >
> > > The Ur example of this trend comes in the form of a brassy and
> > bouffanted Florida congressman named Matt Gaetz.
> > >
> > > Since his arrival in Congress in 2017, Gaetz has shown far more
> interest
> > and passion in appearing on Fox News to dunk on Democrats than in
> actually
> > trying to, you know, legislate.
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>


-- 
Chris Waigl . chris.waigl at gmail.com . chris at lascribe.net
http://eggcorns.lascribe.net . http://chryss.eu

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