[Ads-l] Wokeness and the English language

Fri Oct 22 20:53:05 UTC 2021

Yes, a big relief.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Laurence Horn" <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 3:43pm
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Wokeness and the English language

That *is* a relief. I’ve always been a fan of the Michael non-J. Lewis and it’s nice to know that I don’t have to put away my fandom. 

LH

> On Oct 22, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU> wrote:
> 
> That's why I asked about the much lauded previous work of Michael Lewis -- I suspected that he was being confused with the highly regarded financial journalist.
> 
> Fred Shapiro
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 3:09 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Wokeness and the English language
> 
> Just to clarify, the Commentary writer is Michael J. Lewis, professor
> of art and architecture at Williams College and architecture critic for the
> Wall Street Journal. He's not to be confused with the financial journalist
> Michael Lewis, author of _Moneyball_, _The Big Short_, etc.
> 
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 2:55 PM dave at wilton.net <dave at wilton.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> In addition to the linguistic problems with Lewis's piece, he gets
>> non-linguistic facts wrong that would have been corrected had he done a
>> modicum of background research. Notable: his framing of California Senate
>> Bill 219 is inaccurate, and Chelsea Manning was not "pardoned." Her
>> sentence was commuted on compassionate grounds after it was revealed that
>> she had been abused while in custody. She remains a convicted felon.
>> 
>> Had there been even a minimal amount of fact-checking, this piece would
>> never have seen the light of day, at least not in its present form. But
>> then I guess he's Michael Lewis and above such trivial matters like getting
>> facts right. It makes me question his earlier work which has been so highly
>> lauded, and which I had thought was excellent.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Baker, John" <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM>
>> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 2:28pm
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Wokeness and the English language
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> While I'm hesitant to be in the position of defending Michael Lewis's
>> article, with which I disagree, I think a fair reading of his claims about
>> "pasta" and "relatable" is that these terms had dramatic increases in their
>> use around 1980 and 2010, respectively, not that they were new terms that
>> previously had not been used. He bases this on Google Ngram Viewer, where
>> you can see that these terms have long histories but became strikingly more
>> popular about those times. I myself recall how noticeable it was when
>> everyone suddenly stopped saying "spaghetti" and started saying "pasta"
>> instead.
>> 
>> As Fred Shapiro points out, however, Lewis's claim that "sexist language"
>> first appeared in a 1971 essay is lightly researched, as JSTOR has examples
>> from 1970. I also see its use in the (Pasadena) Star News from Jan. 2,
>> 1971, in an article by Aileen Hernandez, National President of the National
>> Organization for Women, which likewise predates the essay Lewis references.
>> 
>> 
>> John Baker
>> 
>> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> On Behalf Of
>> Shapiro, Fred
>> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 9:38 AM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Wokeness and the English language
>> 
>> External Email - Think Before You Click
>> 
>> 
>> Lewis does actually mention the Oxford English Dictionary in his article,
>> but doesn't seem to have realized that the OED is a source that might be
>> helpful in determining dates of appearance of words and phrases.
>> 
>> Fred Shapiro
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
>> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>> on behalf of Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at GMAIL.COM
>> <mailto:bgzimmer at GMAIL.COM>>
>> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 9:23 AM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> <
>> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>
>> Subject: Re: Wokeness and the English language
>> 
>> A little Googling might have revealed this NYT column from 2010 where I
>> trace the history of "relatable":
>> 
>> 
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2010%2F08%2F15%2Fmagazine%2F15onlanguage.html&data=04%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40yale.edu%7Cd6210eb117684d318c9b08d9958f7c9c%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637705265768839328%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=5ppYlMFkaZto%2B%2BBBl8J0fbIh%2BfwY50dHF0Dd6OBOur0%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2010%2F08%2F15%2Fmagazine%2F15onlanguage.html&data=04%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40yale.edu%7Cd6210eb117684d318c9b08d9958f7c9c%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637705265768839328%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=5ppYlMFkaZto%2B%2BBBl8J0fbIh%2BfwY50dHF0Dd6OBOur0%3D&reserved=0
>>> 
>> 
>> Or perhaps Lewis saw the reader's claim that the term was new in 2010 and
>> didn't bother reading further.
>> 
>> Elsewhere, Lewis does at least get the origin of "Ms." right, dating it to
>> 1901, based on research by Fred and me.
>> 
>> 
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2009%2F10%2F25%2Fmagazine%2F25FOB-onlanguage-t.html&data=04%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40yale.edu%7Cd6210eb117684d318c9b08d9958f7c9c%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637705265768839328%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=bohDuNE8NIGmRfZu7lTCTzME0bBwzp7GTtqhAPNAtps%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2009%2F10%2F25%2Fmagazine%2F25FOB-onlanguage-t.html&data=04%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40yale.edu%7Cd6210eb117684d318c9b08d9958f7c9c%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637705265768839328%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=bohDuNE8NIGmRfZu7lTCTzME0bBwzp7GTtqhAPNAtps%3D&reserved=0
>>> 
>> 
>> --bgz
>> 
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 6:43 AM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu
>> <mailto:fred.shapiro at yale.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Lewis's statement about a sense of the word "relatable" dating only from
>>> about 2010 also shows his ignorance of the OED and probably of Google
>> Ngram
>>> as well.
>>> 
>>> Fred Shapiro
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
>> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>> on behalf of
>>> Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU<mailto:fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 6:34 AM
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> <
>> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>
>>> Subject: Re: Wokeness and the English language
>>> 
>>> Like Wilson, I was struck by Lewis's strange line about "pasta." I don't
>>> know whether he was basing his "never before 1980" statement on his own
>>> memories or on some erroneous Google Ngram, but is it possible that this
>>> great champion of the traditional English language is ignorant of the
>>> existence of the Oxford English Dictionary ? The OED has lots of
>> citations
>>> for "pasta" going back to the early 1800s.
>>> 
>>> Fred Shapiro
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
>> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>> on behalf of
>>> Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM<mailto:hwgray at GMAIL.COM>>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 12:10 AM
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> <
>> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>
>>> Subject: Re: Wokeness and the English language
>>> 
>>> "no one said _pasta_ before about 1980"
>>> - Michael Lewis
>>> 
>>> Clearly, he means that no one _wrote_ "pasta" before about 1980. And his
>>> encomium yo James Brown is also ill-conceived.it was the Black Panther
>>> Party, especially Stokeley Carmichael, H. Rap Brown, and Malcolm X, who
>>> made "black" cool and hip, no longer a gross insult cringeworthy and
>>> hurtful enough, at one time, to bring tears in schoolyards and
>> playgrounds.
>>> Richard Pryor had those days inn mind, when he quipped, "I'm not black.
>> I'm
>>> colored!"
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 8:08 PM David Daniel <dad at coarsecourses.com
>> <mailto:dad at coarsecourses.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Well, what scared me about the article is that it described what I have
>>>> observed. I saw no claims that were beyond the reality I have
>> observed. I
>>>> just had not read anything that gathered them all together. If he
>> missed
>>>> some linguistic history, I don't think that affects the value of his
>>>> comments about present events. Cancel-culture linguistic mania is way
>>> over
>>>> the top, and social media is allowing the tail to wag the dog. "One guy
>>>> with
>>>> a twitter account..."
>>>> DAD
>>>> 
>>>> -----Mensagem original-----
>>>> De: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] Em nome
>> de
>>>> dave at wilton.net<mailto:dave at wilton.net>
>>>> Enviada em: quarta-feira, 20 de outubro de 2021 17:48
>>>> Para: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Assunto: Re: Wokeness and the English language
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
>> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>
>>>> Poster: "dave at wilton.net<mailto:dave at wilton.net>" <dave at WILTON.NET
>> <mailto:dave at WILTON.NET>>
>>>> Subject: Re: Wokeness and the English language
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ---
>>>> 
>>>> =0AI had respect for Michael Lewis, but not only does he demonstrate
>>>> ignora=
>>>> nce of linguistics and the history of the English language, but he gets
>>>> bas=
>>>> ic, easily researched facts wrong.=0A =0AHe is going the route of J.K.
>>>> Rowl=
>>>> ing. Sad, really.=0A =0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: "David
>>>> Danie=
>>>> l" <dad at COARSECOURSES.COM<mailto:dad at COARSECOURSES.COM>>=0ASent:
>> Wednesday, October 20, 2021
>>>> 4:23pm=0ATo:=
>>>> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=0ASubject<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=0ASubject>:
>> [ADS-L] Wokeness and the English
>>>> languag=
>>>> e=0A=0A=0A=0AVery interesting article and, at least for me,
>>>> scary.
>> 
>> 
> 
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