[Ads-l] qoty possible

Sun Mar 27 23:01:15 UTC 2022

Whether made in good faith or not, it is true that where words are not specially defined in the statute, enabling regulations or limited by legislative history, they are generally given their common ordinary meanings.

My guess, without consulting the archives, is that for the past several millennia, until about a week or two ago, the word “woman” has not generally been specially defined in statutes, enabling regulations or discussed much in the legislative history.

Provided, as John Baker suggests, there were legitimate, legalistic reasons for a nominee to sidestep or evade the question, it is interesting that the nominee didn’t think to mention them, instead of giving a QOTY-nominated response.

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From: Baker, John<mailto:JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM>
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2022 2:06 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: qoty possible

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Poster:       "Baker, John" <JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM>
Subject:      Re: qoty possible
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Of course, the original question from Senator Blackburn, "Can you provide a=
 definition for the word 'woman'?" was not asked in good faith and properly=
 should not have received a responsive definition.  Senator Blackburn was a=
ttempting to get Judge Jackson to commit herself on cases that are likely t=
o come before the Supreme Court (in this instance, involving transgender wo=
men).  It is well-accepted that a judicial nominee should not substantively=
 respond to such questions.

A response means that the nominee has pre-judged the case.  In addition, a =
response would be particularly inappropriate here, because an off-the-cuff =
definition would not take account of the particular legal and factual circu=
mstances of future cases.  It may be, for example, that "woman" should be c=
onstrued one way in cases involving women competing against other women in =
sports and another way in cases involving discrimination against women in t=
he workplace.

Judge Jackson's response actually was unfortunate in that she implied that =
the definition of "woman" is a matter of biology and not, e.g., a social co=
nstruct.  Still, I think she could comfortably say that this is a matter on=
 which she has not committed herself and that she therefore would be open t=
o the arguments of the litigants when such a case comes up.

John Baker

From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> On Behalf Of Peter =
Reitan
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2022 4:22 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: qoty possible

External Email - Think Before You Click

But we all know now, that the real difficulty in defining a bachelor, along=
 the traditional lines of an unmarried man, is knowing what a man is in the=
 first place - consult a biologist. Consult an attorney or clergy ir both f=
or the unmarried part.
________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSER=
V.UGA.EDU>> on behalf of ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM<mailt=
o:adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>>
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2022 8:00:54 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.U=
GA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>
Subject: Re: qoty possible

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Subject: Re: qoty possible
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----

The mention of category membership and "bachelor" reminded me of an
influential article by computer scientist Terry Winograd that I heard
about when I began learning about artificial intelligence many years
ago.

Year: 1976
Journal: Revue Internationale de Philosophie
Volume 30, Number 117/118
Article: Towards a Procedural Understanding of Semantics
Author: Terry Winograd
Start Page 260, Quote Page 276
Database: JSTOR

https://www.jstor.org/stable/23943134<https://www.jstor.org/stable/23943134=<https://www.jstor.org/stable/23943134%3chttps:/www.jstor.org/stable/23943134=>
>

[Begin excerpt =3DE2=3D80=3D93 check for typos]
Consider the following exchange:
Host: I=3DE2=3D80=3D99m having a big party next weekend. Do you know any ni=
ce
bachelors I could invite?
Friend: Yes, l know this fellow X . . .

The problem is to decide, given the facts below, for which values of X
the response would be a reasonable answer in light of the normal
meaning of the word =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cbachelor=3DE2=3D80=3D9D. A simple test i=
s to ask for=3D
which ones
the host might fairly complain =3DE2=3D80=3D9CYou lied. You said X was a ba=
chelor=3D
=3DE2=3D80=3D9D:

A: Arthur has been living happily with Alice for the last five years,
They have a two year old daughter, and have never officially married.

B: Bruce was going to be drafted, so he arranged with his friend
Barbara to have a justice of the peace marry them so he would be
exempt. They have never lived together. He dates a number of women,
and plans to have the marriage annulled as soon as he finds someone he
wants to marry.

C: Charlie is 17 years old. He lives at home with his parents and is
in high school.

D: David is 17 years old. He left home at 13, started a small
business, and is now a successful young entrepreneur leading a
playboy=3DE2=3D80=3D99s life style in his penthouse apartment.

E: Eli and Edgar are homosexual lovers who have been living together
for many years.

F: Faisal is allowed by the law of his native Abu Dhabi to have three
wives. He currently has two and is interested in meeting another
potential fiance.

G: Father Gregory is the bishop of the Catholic cathedral at Groton upon Th=
=3D
ames.
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Sat, Mar 26, 2022 at 8:24 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu<mailt=
o:laurence.horn at yale.edu>> wrot=3D
e:
>
> Some time ago (in the 1970s, to be more or less precise) Hilary Putnam
> argued persuasively for what he calls the division of linguistic labor,
> which among other things makes the point that the extension of natural ki=
=3D
nd
> terms (like "tiger", "water", or "whale", or "gold") is determined by
> "experts" in the relevant field within the linguistic
> community--zoologists, chemists, botanists, whatever. And that the result
> is more like an encyclopedia entry than a true definition of the kind
> available for "one-criterion" words in which there are necessary and
> sufficient conditions for category membership like "bachelor" or
> "touchdown". His idea is that we can have theories about what it takes f=
=3D
or
> something to be water or a whale, for example, and that these theories ca=
=3D
n
> change over time without the "definition" changing. We can discover we we=
=3D
re
> wrong about water being an element, or a whale being a large fish, but we
> can't discover that a touchdown really countis for 5 points or that
> bachelors were really secretly married all along. For natural kind terms=
=3D
,
> as he puts it in the title of one of his papers, "meanings ain't in the
> head"--to know that something is or isn't an X, or an instance of X, is n=
=3D
ot
> to have the relevant concept. (Saul Kripke provides parallel arguments fo=
=3D
r
> proper names not having true meanings.) It's plausible that biological
> theories of "woman" (to the extent that this is a natural kind term) woul=
=3D
d
> be a case in point.
>
> LH
>
> On Sat, Mar 26, 2022 at 6:38 PM Peter Reitan <pjreitan at hotmail.com<mailto=
:pjreitan at hotmail.com>> wrote=3D
:
>
> > Do biologists get to define words, or linguists?
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LIS=
TSERV.UGA.EDU>> on behalf of Ma=3D
rk
> > Mandel <markamandel at GMAIL.COM<mailto:markamandel at GMAIL.COM>>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2022 12:03:44 AM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> <ADS-L at LISTSE=
RV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>
> > Subject: Re: qoty possible
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at L=
ISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>
> > Poster: Mark Mandel <markamandel at GMAIL.COM<mailto:markamandel at GMAIL.COM=
>>
> > Subject: Re: qoty possible
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
=3D
--------
> >
> > Fair enough!
> >
> > MAM
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 12:55 PM Bill Mullins <amcombill at hotmail.com<mail=
to:amcombill at hotmail.com>> wro=3D
te:
> >
> > > Ketanji Brown Jackson Mar 22, 2022.
> > >
> > > When asked if she can provide a definition of the word "woman," she s=
=3D
ay's
> > > she can't, "I'm not a biologist."
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org<http://=<http://www.americandialect.org%3chttp:/=>
www.americandialect.org><http://www.americandialect.org%3e>
> > >
> >
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> >
>
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