[Ads-l] "which" = 'who'

[Laurence Horn]

cf. OED, s.v. "which" II. 3. a(a):  With reference to persons. Now chiefly
regional or archaic, except when referring to a collective body or small
child.

There are several 17th and 18th century cites (including one from King
Lear), one from 1836 ("Dugald Stewart, one of the greatest men which Scotland
has produced") and one from Faulkner in 1940 ("He could almost see the
husband which she would someday have"), supporting the dictum that the past
isn't dead, it's not even past.

LH

P.S. It's probably relevant that neither of those last two cites actually
picks out a real-world individual

On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 5:21 PM Charles C Doyle <cdoyle at uga.edu> wrote:

> And then there's God:  "Our father which art in heaven . . . " (KJV).
>
> --Charlie
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2022 4:34 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: "which" = 'who'
>
> [EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]
>
>
> 1857 Frederick Law Olmsted  _A Journey through Texas_  (N.Y.: Dix &
> Edwards) 34: One evening we were hailed in the darkness to come in and take
> some freight aboard.  It proved to be a negro woman _which_ her master
> wished to send to Nashville.
>
> The italics presumably mean that this was the actual "illiterate" word
> used.
>
> JL
>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 12:27 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> https://naval-encyclopedia.com/naval-aviation/ww2/us/vought-sb2u-vindicator.php
> > <
> https://naval-encyclopedia.com/naval-aviation/ww2/us/vought-sb2u-vindicator.php
> >
> >
> > "Mechanics, which after each mission had to patch these with bands of
> > tape, ended calling them 'Wind Indicators'."
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:14 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject:      Re: "which" = 'who'
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> His voice was very even and confident. It did not sound like a slip. The
> >> student exx. I used to see occasionally didn't seem like slips either.
> Nor
> >> did they refer to de-animated individuals.
> >>
> >> I doubt too whether many people would think, "I saw a corpse  - I mean a
> >> lady! - which had slumped over on the table."
> >>
> >> JL
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:01 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> > -----------------------
> >> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >> > Subject:      Re: "which" = 'who'
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > On Sep 7, 2011, at 8:53 PM, Spanbock/Svoboda-Spanbock wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > If she was dead, maybe it was a slip? Dead people aren't exactly
> >> > > persons in the same way.
> >> >
> >> > I think it was Jim McCawley who pointed out the difference between:
> >> >
> >> > the corpse which/*who was sprawled on the table
> >> > the dead person (dead lady, dead man,...) who/*which was sprawled on
> the
> >> > table
> >> >
> >> > But maybe not everyone shares these judgments.
> >> >
> >> > (Of course, "dead body" works like "corpse":  the dead body which/*who
> >> was
> >> > sprawled on the table.)
> >> >
> >> > LH
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Sep 7, 2011, at 12:15 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> > >> -----------------------
> >> > >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > >> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >> > >> Subject:      "which" = 'who'
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Eyewitness to Carson City IHOP shootings, on CNN: "I saw a lady
> >> > >> which had
> >> > >> slumped over on the table."
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Guy (on phone) otherwise well-spoken, sounds white, not young. But
> >> > >> not old
> >> > >> enough to be a speaker of Middle English, either.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I used to see this occasionally in freshman themes more than twenty
> >> > >> years
> >> > >> ago. It would not occur to me in ten million years to use "which"
> in
> >> > >> this
> >> > >> way.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> JL
> >> > >>
> >> > >> --
> >> > >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >> > >> truth."
> >> > >>
> >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> > >
> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >> truth."
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

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