[Ads-l] mysterious antedatings of "foo fighter"

Fri Apr 14 00:04:45 UTC 2023

fui, fuiste, fuit--it's all in the past.

On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 3:34 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Fooey.
>
> JL
>
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 3:19 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > Or in a food fight with Egg Foo Young.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 3:08 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > They fight with Kung Foo.
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 1:48 PM Stephen Goranson <goranson at duke.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > foo fighters fight foo or fight with foo or fight foo with foo?
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> > > > Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2023 1:34 PM
> > > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Subject: Re: mysterious antedatings of "foo fighter"
> > > >
> > > > A hundred and twelve bucks!!!
> > > >
> > > > Smokey was a gas, but really...!
> > > >
> > > > JL
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 1:22 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > > > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > A collection of "Smokey Stover" material was titled "The Foo
> Fighter"
> > > > > as shown in the scan on the following webpage. The webpage says the
> > > > > collection was published in 1938. I have not verified the
> publication
> > > > > date.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abebooks.com/comics/Smokey-Stover-Book-*231421-1938-The-Foo/31093818440/bd__;JQ!!OToaGQ!vn_mEY6If0WZQSK_755DHNcafZiSzW9S3bre1A45Rhx_4DhYk6XH3RkrqXNcNFFb8efOWbcvjWsZi8lUDIJd5g$
> > > > >
> > > > > [Begin website description]
> > > > > Smokey Stover Book #1421 1938-The Foo Fighter - Whitman-Bill Holman
> > > > art-FN
> > > > > Published by Whitman, 1938
> > > > > [End website description]
> > > > >
> > > > > Garson
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 1:11 PM Jonathan Lighter <
> > > wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With so much foo in the air, "foo fighter" wouldn't need to have
> > > > appeared
> > > > > > in the strip more than once.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jl
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 9:50 AM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > > > > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The text of most comic strips is not presented using a standard
> > > > > > > typeface. Often, the optical character recognition (OCR)
> > algorithms
> > > > do
> > > > > > > not process and index the text of comic strips correctly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For example, the following page (see paywalled link) has a
> Smokey
> > > > > > > Stover comic strip. The strip contains the words "big".
> "rattle",
> > > > > > > "notice", and "goofy". If you electronically search for these
> > words
> > > > on
> > > > > > > the page you will produce the message "No matches found". The
> > words
> > > > in
> > > > > > > the comic strip are not being recognized and indexed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.newspapers.com/image/204427147/__;!!OToaGQ!vn_mEY6If0WZQSK_755DHNcafZiSzW9S3bre1A45Rhx_4DhYk6XH3RkrqXNcNFFb8efOWbcvjWsZi8k4obY-gA$
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Technologically, it is now possible to recognize and index text
> > in
> > > > > > > comic strips. Capable OCR algorithms exist. But newspapers.com
> > and
> > > > > > > other databases are doing a poor job. Occasionally, comic strip
> > > text
> > > > > > > is recognized and indexed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here is a description of the “Foo Craze” in 1938.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Date: December 1, 1938,
> > > > > > > Newspaper: Jackson's Hole Courier
> > > > > > > Newspaper Location: Jackson, Wyoming
> > > > > > > Section: The Rustler
> > > > > > > Article: Have You Got the Foo Craze?
> > > > > > > Author: S.H.
> > > > > > > Quote Page 5, Column 4
> > > > > > > Database: Newspapers.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.newspapers.com/clip/122788433/foo-craze/__;!!OToaGQ!vn_mEY6If0WZQSK_755DHNcafZiSzW9S3bre1A45Rhx_4DhYk6XH3RkrqXNcNFFb8efOWbcvjWsZi8lOoG9Y3Q$
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Begin excerpt - check for errors]
> > > > > > > HAVE YOU GOT THE FOO CRAZE?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Foo craze hasn't seemed to hit this community as hard as
> > others
> > > > > > > I've seen. Never have I forgotten and never will I forget one
> > town
> > > in
> > > > > > > particular. It was about one thousand population and not one
> > person
> > > > > > > had escaped the Foo mania. All letters were addressed to people
> > > with
> > > > > > > at least five Foo's in between the words. There were Foo clubs
> > and
> > > > Foo
> > > > > > > stores, in fact somebody suggested naming the town Foo.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now, what is Foo? Foo, to the best of my knowledge, was
> > originated
> > > by
> > > > > > > Bill Holman, an artist that draws a comic strip entitled
> "Smokey
> > > > > > > Stover." It was hard to get the word started on its way to
> > > > popularity,
> > > > > > > but once it caught it spread like wild fire. In fact it became
> so
> > > > > > > popular that Mr. Holman had to give it some brothers and
> sisters.
> > > > > > > Hence came Goo and Sloosh and many other just as crazy phrases.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Foo has no particular meaning but is used by Mr. Holman as a
> > > > > > > substitute for many a crazy wise-crack. For example, he will
> > take a
> > > > > > > well known saying such as "Give me liberty or give me death,"
> and
> > > > > > > change it to "Give me Foo or give me Goo." "What the best
> dressed
> > > Foo
> > > > > > > will wear," is another example.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now, you ought to have a fairly clear idea as to how Foo
> started,
> > > > what
> > > > > > > it is and how it has progressed. At this point we'll go back to
> > the
> > > > > > > first and main question, "Have you got the Foo craze? If you
> > > haven't,
> > > > > > > don't get it. If you have--well, nobody is perfect.
> > > > > > > S.H.
> > > > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 7:38 AM Jonathan Lighter <
> > > > > wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Great find. As we all know, Smokey's office wall sported a
> sign
> > > > that
> > > > > > > said,
> > > > > > > > "Where There's Foo There's Fire."  If "foo fighter" also
> > appeared
> > > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > strip in '38-'39 (which is plausible), I'm surprised it
> hasn't
> > > > > turned up
> > > > > > > > via database yet. FWIW (zilch), I don't recall "foo fighter"
> in
> > > the
> > > > > strip
> > > > > > > > from ca1958-ca1962, when I was reading it faithfully - and
> > when I
> > > > > first
> > > > > > > > learned of WW2 foo fighters.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > JL
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 8:56 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > > > > > > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Early instances of “foo fighters” might be from the comic
> > strip
> > > > > Smokey
> > > > > > > > > Stover which is mentioned in the article linked by LH.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Date: March 11, 1939
> > > > > > > > > Publication: The Limelight
> > > > > > > > > Location: Palm Springs, California
> > > > > > > > > Article: The Week At The Racquet Club (Exclusive to the
> > > Limelight
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > BOGEARS)
> > > > > > > > > Quote Page 7, Column 2
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.newspapers.com/image/749126778/__;!!OToaGQ!vn_mEY6If0WZQSK_755DHNcafZiSzW9S3bre1A45Rhx_4DhYk6XH3RkrqXNcNFFb8efOWbcvjWsZi8kZ0K2_TQ$
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [Begin excerpt = double check for typos]
> > > > > > > > > Highlight of the evening — Priscilla and John dressed up
> like
> > > > Smoky
> > > > > > > > > Stover & Chief Cashew Nut — the Foo Fighters — in two of
> the
> > > > > cleverest
> > > > > > > > > getups yet seen in Palm Springs. It takes nerve or sumthing
> > to
> > > > walk
> > > > > > > > > into the Racquet Club at one A.M. with red underwear and a
> > > > > fireman's
> > > > > > > > > hat. on And Priscilla's must have been stolen from the fire
> > > > > department
> > > > > > > > > 'cause it was real.
> > > > > > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Here is a claim from Toonpedia about "foo fighter".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.toonopedia.com/smokey.htm__;!!OToaGQ!vn_mEY6If0WZQSK_755DHNcafZiSzW9S3bre1A45Rhx_4DhYk6XH3RkrqXNcNFFb8efOWbcvjWsZi8krDO4pfg$
> > > > > > > > > Topic: SMOKEY STOVER
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [Begin excerpt]
> > > > > > > > > . . . Smokey drove around in a two-wheeled firetruck known
> > (to
> > > > > > > > > readers, at least) as The Foomobile . . .
> > > > > > > > > The expression "foo fighter", a term used by UFO
> enthusiasts,
> > > is
> > > > > > > > > traced to Smokey Stover, who often called himself a foo
> > fighter
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > anyone else would have said "firefighter".
> > > > > > > > > [End excerpt]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Garson
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 8:25 PM Jonathan Lighter <
> > > > > > > wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I first heard about WW2 foo fighters in 1960 or so
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > They were "explained" as cockpit reflections, the moon,
> > > Venus,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > St.
> > > > > > > > > > Elmo's fire.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So obvious....
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > JL
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 8:11 PM Laurence Horn <
> > > > > > > laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Apparently a WWII (or, the above suggests, a slightly
> > > > pre-WWII)
> > > > > > > > > designation
> > > > > > > > > > > for what we now call UFOs.  Who knew?  (Well, probably
> > some
> > > > of
> > > > > you,
> > > > > > > > > but not
> > > > > > > > > > > me.)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/lets-talk-about-foo-fighters-no-not-dave-grohls-band/__;!!OToaGQ!vn_mEY6If0WZQSK_755DHNcafZiSzW9S3bre1A45Rhx_4DhYk6XH3RkrqXNcNFFb8efOWbcvjWsZi8nt4Z563w$
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > (There's also a wikipedia page, but nothing that would
> > > > predict
> > > > > > > > > occurrences
> > > > > > > > > > > as early as 1939, much less in Texas and Indiana. But
> > typos
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > > > > unlikely.
> > > > > > > > > > > Maybe time-travelers--there are a lot of time-travel
> > > > scenarios
> > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > > > > that period.)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > LH
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 4:33 PM Jonathan Lighter <
> > > > > > > > > wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > OED: 1945
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1939  _Tyler [Tex.] Morning Telegraph_ (July 15) 6:
> > > > > Standings in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > Peewee
> > > > > > > > > > > > baseball league...Dead End Kids...Junior
> > > > > > > > > > > > Trojans...Wildcats...Dooflunkies...Foo Fighters.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1939 _Franklin [Ind.] Evening Star_ (Sept. 22) 4:
> > Volley
> > > > > > > > > ball..."Black
> > > > > > > > > > > > Panthers," "Golden Panthers," "Foo Fighters," and
> > > "Sterling
> > > > > > > Flashes."
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Weird typos?  Or just weird?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > JL
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you
> > can't
> > > > > handle
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > truth."
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > The American Dialect Society -
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.americandialect.org__;!!OToaGQ!vn_mEY6If0WZQSK_755DHNcafZiSzW9S3bre1A45Rhx_4DhYk6XH3RkrqXNcNFFb8efOWbcvjWsZi8lyqWYfEQ$
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >
> > >
> >
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> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't
> > > handle
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > truth."
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > The American Dialect Society -
> > > >
> > >
> >
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't
> handle
> > > the
> > > > > > > truth."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >
> > >
> >
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> > > > > > >
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> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.americandialect.org__;!!OToaGQ!vn_mEY6If0WZQSK_755DHNcafZiSzW9S3bre1A45Rhx_4DhYk6XH3RkrqXNcNFFb8efOWbcvjWsZi8lyqWYfEQ$
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> the
> > > > > truth."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
> >
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > > truth."
> > > >
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> > >
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> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

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