[Ads-l] Antedating of "Tick-Tack-Toe"

[ADSGarson O'Toole]

I agree that the combination of "tic tac(k) toe" and "three in a row"
is an indicator of the game. But (to me) it is conceivable that the
rhyme was created independently of the game.

Here is evidence that skeptics will probably accept from 1897. Below
are two citations from "Harper's Round Table". Together they indicate
that "tic, tac, toe" was a widely played game for children, and it was
played on a three by three grid.

Date: March 16, 1897
Periodical: Harper's Round Table
Publisher: Harper & Brothers, New York
Article: A Fifteen Problem
Quote Page 494, Column 2
Database: Google Books

https://books.google.com/books?id=t1U_AQAAMAAJ&q=%22tic+tac%22#v=snippet&

[Begin excerpt - please double-check text]
A Fifteen Problem

Is there a school in the country in which scholars
never play "tic, tac, toe"? If so, will not some one
who attends it write the TABLE? It would be
interesting to know if the simple game is not
universal. Charles Kingenberg suggests the making of
the double crossed lines as in the game named.
Then place the figures one to nine, one in a place.
and using all places and figures so that horizontally,
perpendicularly, and diagonally in both ways,
the sum is fifteen.
[End excerpt]

Date: March 23, 1897
Periodical: Harper's Round Table
Publisher: Harper & Brothers, New York
Article: In that Fifteen Problem
Quote Page 518, Column 2
Database: Google Books

https://books.google.com/books?id=t1U_AQAAMAAJ&q=%22tic+tac%22#v=snippet&

[Begin excerpt - please double-check text]
In that Fifteen Problem

The way to place the figures one to nine on a
"tic, tac, toe" diagram so that in eight ways the
sum of the three figures will be fifteen is: Reading
from left to right, the top line, 4, 3, 8; the second
line, 9, 5, 1; and the lower line, 2, 7, 6.
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 8:21 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The JL in 1879 is a typo.
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 8:19 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I've got some more, though it isn't quite clear which game is alluded to:
> >
> > 1879_ Chicago Tribune_ (Sept. 4) 5: Is one Nicholas Bramgan, recently
> > liberated from the Penitentiary at Joliet, in the employ of the city as
> > policeman or give-away, or is he simply playing a little game of "tick,
> > tack, toe," like Martin Flanagan?JL
> >
> > 1885 _St. Albans [Vt.] Daily Messenger_ (Feb. 28) 3: Even the teacher
> > will... take a slate and sit down wit [sic] a girl and play what is called
> > tick-tack-toe.
> >
> > It may be that "tic-tac-toe" began as a counting rhyme like
> > eeny-meeny-miny-mo:
> >
> > 1885 _Washington Standard_ (Olympia, Wash.) (Nov. 6) 1: Tic, tac, toe; let
> > the Chinese lepers go./...Get out of this, get out of that./ Tic-tac-toe.
> >
> > There's this:
> >
> > 1862 _Weekly Times (Burlington, Vt.) (Nov. 8) 7: NEW MUSIC.
> > Songs....Kingdom Coming (Negro melody)....Tick-Tack-Toe, - A song for the
> > times.
> >
> > And:
> >
> > 1874 _Manchester Guardian_  (March 6) 6: The children in [the painting]
> > "Tick! Tack! Toe!"...are just as bad.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 7:39 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Interesting topic, JL. Excellent lead, Fred.
> >> The phrase "Tic-tac-toe, three in a row" occurs below in 1878 (I
> >> think), but it is not clear whether it refers to the game of today.
> >>
> >> Part of the text is cut off in the scan.
> >>
> >> Date: 1878 October
> >> Periodical: New Dominion Monthly
> >> Published by John Dougall & Son, Montreal
> >> Section: Young Folks
> >> Article: A Life in the Stage: A Story for Boys
> >> Start Page 462, Quote Page 466, Column 2
> >>
> >>
> >> https://books.google.com/books?id=V685RfuwRmQC&q=%22Tic%2C+tac%22#v=snippet&
> >>
> >> [Begin excerpt - please double check text and date]
> >> But can this comfortable, ea...
> >> going man, who walks up to the v...
> >> andah and seating himself on the
> >> vacant chair says with a quiet laugh
> >> "Tic-tac-toe, three in a row--...
> >> this be our little thin, pale-faced S...
> >> [End excerpt]
> >>
> >> The cut-off words might be "easy" and veranda".
> >>
> >> Garson
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 7:03 PM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Correction: In the 1908 citation it is "tack" rather than "tock."
> >> >
> >> > Fred Shapiro
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ________________________________
> >> > From: Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2023 7:01 PM
> >> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> > Subject: Antedating of "Tick-Tack-Toe"
> >> >
> >> > tick-tack-toe (OED, b., 1960)
> >> >
> >> > 1895 _St. Louis Post-Dispatch_ 10 Dec. 7/1 (Newspapers.com)  It was
> >> "tick, tack, toe, three in a row."
> >> >
> >> > 1908 _Cincinnati Enquirer_ 9 July 2/6 (Newspapers.com)  Up to the stage
> >> they went, tick, tock, toe, three in a row. like the figures we used to
> >> make on our slate when the teacher wasn't looking.
> >> >
> >> > Fred Shapiro
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
> >
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org