[Ads-l] Quote: Truth is the first casualty in war

Mon Jun 19 18:06:02 UTC 2023

Thanks, Fred.

BTW, that should be "Frau Riga Hellmann."

JL

On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 1:57 PM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu> wrote:

>
> I remember now that I previously posted a pre-Ethel Snowden Soviet-related
> usage of "iron curtain" in 1919, curiously occurring in a newspaper story
> adjacent to a story about Ethel Snowden's husband.
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 1:47 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Fw: Quote: Truth is the first casualty in war
>
> Nice antedating, Jon.
>
> It is interesting that Ethel Snowden also provided the earliest use of the
> term "iron curtain" referring to a boundary of Soviet hegemony.
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
> Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 11:08 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Quote: Truth is the first casualty in war
>
> Here's a one-month antedating (or interdating) for Garson's great article.
> "Mrs. Philip Snowden was the same "Ethel Annakin" cited by Garson. Her
> husband Philip, later 1st Viscount Snowdon, became Chancellor of the
> Exchequer in 1929. Ethel Snowden was well placed to circulate the saying in
> influential circles:
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FEthel_Snowden&data=05%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7Ce63a8778213a4522410d08db70d715df%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C638227841313630468%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=91wfOEsdP3n1NkUteedesuUsV2k6qlOjPUpWXkYlWBM%3D&reserved=0
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethel_Snowden>  The
> newspaper report of her address describes at as "bitter" and "fearless."
>
> 1915 _San Diego Union_ (July 19) 4:
>
> Secret diplomacy, blundering officiadom, commercial conspiracy, the
> suppression of truth, the fostering of race hatred, all the cross currents
> and interlocking forces that underlie and lead up to the decrees of "bad
> men in power" and plunge nations into war were laid bare and relentlessly
> lashed by Mrs. Philip Snowdon [sic], wife of a member of the British
> parliament, who was one of the chief speakers last night at the
> international parliament of peace at the Isis theatre....
>
> "Someone has said that 'truth is the first casualty of warfare,"' she
> [said], "and this has been proved by the appalling misconceptions that have
> been spread broadcast since the war began."
>
> [Mrs. Snowden was shared the stage with Frau Riag Hellman, a German peace
> activist. The United States was still neutral at this time.]
>
> JL
>
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 1:09 AM ADSGarson O'Toole <
> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > The adage in the subject line was discussed on this mailing list
> > within a thread initiated by Jonathan Lighter back in March 2011.
> >
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistserv.linguistlist.org%2Fpipermail%2Fads-l%2F2011-March%2F107699.html&data=05%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7Ce63a8778213a4522410d08db70d715df%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C638227841313630468%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hYSMaD9ihdH3kQuPOOPEqTwwu0JHjvNo7VY8tC9z0no%3D&reserved=0
> <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2011-March/107699.html>
> >
> > After a brief interval of nine years the QI website now has an article
> > on this topic:
> >
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fquoteinvestigator.com%2F2020%2F04%2F11%2Fcasualty%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7Ce63a8778213a4522410d08db70d715df%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C638227841313630468%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BNZ1TLDlCoHV6Z%2BRtLkZPyqHNLu%2FKHcoOy0F5ZVJ8d0%3D&reserved=0
> <https://quoteinvestigator.com/2020/04/11/casualty/>
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > Great thanks to Christopher Field, Mark Schulman, Peter Gainsford,
> > Peter Olausson (faktoids), and DarksideJohnny whose inquiries led QI
> > to formulate this question and perform this exploration.
> >
> > Special thanks to researchers Barry Popik, Jonathan Lighter, Charles
> > Clay Doyle, Wolfgang Mieder, Fred R. Shapiro, Stephen Goranson, and
> > Nigel Rees and others who have explored this topic.
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > The earliest close match, I believe, was located by Barry Popik back
> > in January 2011. It is listed on his website and also within "The
> > Dictionary of Modern Proverbs" (2012) of Charles Clay Doyle, Wolfgang
> > Mieder, and Fred R. Shapiro.
> >
> > The QI article contains some new information.
> >
> > (1) U.S. Senator Hiram Johnson has often received credit for the adage
> > based on a speech he supposedly delivered in 1917 or 1918.
> > Unfortunately, a precise citation for this elusive oration has never
> > been located.
> >
> > Now, the QI article reveals that Johnson did employ the line, but he
> > was speaking in 1929 about Kellogg–Briand Anti-War Pact. "The
> > Baltimore Sun" on January 16, 1929 reported that Johnson said, "The
> > first casualty when war comes is truth". The 1948 reference "The
> > Macmillan Book Of Proverbs" shifted the date of the Johnson
> > attribution to 1918 for unclear reasons.
> >
> > (2) Aeschylus often receives credit although the attribution is
> > currently unsupported.
> >
> > The QI article presents evidence regarding the earliest
> > misattribution; historian Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr.'s  biographical
> > work "A Thousand Days: John F. Kennedy in the White House" states that
> > JFK credited Aeschylus with "In war, truth is the first casualty" in a
> > loose-leaf notebook that he kept for recording bon mots circa 1945-46.
> >
> > The QI article also presents a hypothetical mechanism for the
> > Aeschylus misattribution. See the 1950 citation.
> >
> > Garson
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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