[Ads-l] proleptic "toast"

[Jonathan Lighter]

FWIW, HDAS's first cite is / would have been from Ghostbusters.

I never encountered anything earlier.

The earlier equivalent was simply "dead."

JL

On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 3:23 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
wrote:

> The citation is later than the ones you posted. I am sharing it
> because the extended metaphor is unusual.
>
> Date: October 22, 1985
> Newspaper: The Stanford Daily
> Newspaper Location: Stanford University in Stanford, California
> Article: Card Harriers Return With Mixed Emotions
> Author: Bill Jackson (Staff writer)
> Quote Page 10, Column 3
> Database: The Stanford Daily Archives (via Elephind)
>
> https://archives.stanforddaily.com/1985/10/22?page=10&section=MODSMD_ARTICLE33#article
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> Summing up the Card's past performance and eyeing the Pac-10 meet,
> captain Atkinson could only mutter, "Arizona is toast." Mason added
> with a growl, "And on that we'll spread the jelly we turn the legs of
> those Pac-West teams to."
> [End excerpt]
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 12:55 PM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > For my Wall Street Journal column, I'm doing some research on "toast"
> > defined thusly by OED3 (Mar. 2003 draft addition):
> >
> > ---
> >   colloquial (originally U.S.). A person or thing that is defunct, dead,
> > finished, in serious trouble, etc. Frequently in proleptic use, esp. in
> > _you're_ (also _I'm_, _we're_, etc.) _toast_: you (I, we, etc.) will soon
> > be dead, in trouble, etc. Cf. _history_ n.
> > The lines in quot. 1983   do not in fact appear in the U.S. film
> > _Ghostbusters_ as released in 1985 [sic -- it was 1984], since a
> > considerable amount of the dialogue is ad-libbed. The actual words spoken
> > by Venkman (played by Bill Murray) as he prepares to fire a laser-type
> > weapon, are, 'This chick is toast'; this is probably the origin of the
> > proleptic construction which has gained particular currency.
> > 1983   D. Aykroyd & H. Ramis Ghostbusters (film script, third draft) 123
> > Venkman..: Okay. That's it! I'm gonna turn this guy into toast.
> > 1985   Omaha (Nebraska) World-Herald 5 May b2/2   Shake, Fedya..because
> > you're toast!
> > [etc.]
> > ---
> >
> > I'm looking for early non-"Ghostbusters" uses of "toast" in the proleptic
> > fashion. So far, the earliest I've found in print (not referring to the
> > movie dialogue) is this from Sept. '84:
> >
> > ---
> > https://archive.org/details/KSULKSColl198485V91N2345/page/n5/mode/1up
> > Kansas State Collegian, Sept. 27, 1984, p. 6 (advt.)
> > The Avalon. [...] Fri. Toga Toga Toga. Put on your toga and come party
> > Greek style. [...]
> > The emperor Party-us Maximus has decreed: "Every warrior shall show up
> in a
> > toga, or at the stroke of midnight Friday -- you're toast!"
> > ---
> >
> > Since "Ghostbusters" was released in June '84, that fits the timeline of
> > the movie introducing the usage into the mainstream. Here's the 1985
> > example cited in the OED entry:
> >
> >
> https://www.newspapers.com/article/omaha-world-herald-youre-toast/126774966/
> >
> > "Toast" then shows up in Connie Eble's UNC slang lists in '86 (as noted
> by
> > GDoS), and it went into wider circulation after that. Can anyone track
> down
> > other early examples?
> >
> > --bgz
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>


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