[Ads-l] Quote: There ’s nothing to be learned from history any more. We’ =?Windows-1252?Q?re_?=in science fiction now

Wed May 17 14:17:31 UTC 2023

"History is bunk" is a very famous paraphrase of a Ford line in 1916.  See the New Yale Book of Quotations for sourcing.  Ginsberg appeared to be somewhat confused about the Ford line.  The comment about science fiction is clearly Ginsberg not Ford.

I consider "We're in science fiction now" to be one of the great quotations of the 20th century, and it is becoming more insightful every day.

Fred

________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Mark Mandel <markamandel at GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2023 10:00 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quote: There’s nothing to be learned from history any more. We’re in science fiction now

Ginsberg attributes the quotation, at least the first sentence, to Ford.
Has anyone searched for that? The second sentence, where science fiction is
mentioned, seems much less likely for Henry Ford (1863-1947), but not out
of the question for his grandson Henry Ford II (1917-1987) (dates for both
from Wikipedia).

Mark Mandel

On Wed, May 17, 2023, 4:04 AM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Fred has an entry about the quotation in the subject line in "The New
> Yale Book of Quotations". The NYBQ notes that Allen Ginsberg received
> credit for the quotation in a 1980 book. Here is a 1969 citation.
>
> [ref] 1969, Allen Ginsberg in America by Jane Kramer, Part 2, Chapter
> 1, Quote Page 86, Random House, New York. (Verified with scans) [/ref]
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> "What I meant," Ginsberg said, "is that the past is bunk for people
> now. All past consciousness is bunk. History is bunk. Like Henry Ford
> said about technology—there’s nothing to be learned from history any
> more. We’re in science fiction now. All the revolutions and the old
> methods and techniques for changing consciousness are bankrupt. We’re
> back to magic, to psychic life."
> [End excerpt]
>
> I found the above citation while working on an article about this
> general theme. Below is an overview. Earlier citations (or interesting
> citations) for this theme would be welcome.
>
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fquoteinvestigator.com%2F2023%2F05%2F16%2Fscience-fiction%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7C595664174dfd443335a708db56df18c1%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C638199288424931311%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ndKJmTKWyyvFMYwIriKSLq6urWCBNV7mVwJ4wQAV%2FCA%3D&reserved=0<https://quoteinvestigator.com/2023/05/16/science-fiction/>
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fquoteinvestigator.medium.com%2Fe35caa6f1f38&data=05%7C01%7Cfred.shapiro%40YALE.EDU%7C595664174dfd443335a708db56df18c1%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C638199288424931311%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Mt4QhYFd1ahbJcGN7ofjhBLxP%2B7CL6PL3chm%2BG%2FdtcA%3D&reserved=0<https://quoteinvestigator.medium.com/e35caa6f1f38>
>
> 1954: We live in a science-fiction age. Yesterday’s fantasy is already
> today’s fact. - Chester Whitehorn, Editor of short-lived "Science
> Fiction Digest"
>
> 1957 Jan: The bizarre fact that we do live in a science-fiction world.
> - Canadian Journalist James Cameron (not the moviemaker)
>
> 1968 Jun: We do live in a science fiction age. - John M. Connor, Librarian
>
> 1969: There’s nothing to be learned from history any more. We’re in
> science fiction now. - Allen Ginsberg, Poet
>
> 1971: I have had the disturbing conviction that we are all living in a
> science-fiction story. - Donald A. Wollheim, Science fiction editor
>
> 1974 May: We live in a science fiction age. - Leonard Nimoy, actor who
> played Spock in “Star Trek”
>
> 1975: We live, indisputably, in a science fiction world. -  James E.
> Gunn, Science fiction scholar and author (not the moviemaker)
>
> 1978: Everything is science fiction. And I ought to know. - Ric Ocasek
> and Greg Hawkes, members of the rock group The Cars
>
> 1982: I think we’re living in a science fiction world right now. -
> Isaac Asimov, Science fiction author
>
> Acknowledgement: This article is dedicated to the memory of science
> fiction fan and librarian extraordinaire Dennis Lien who asked
> fascinating questions and helped QI on many occasions.
>
> The text of the first citation in 1954 within "Science Fiction Digest"
> is visible in snippets in Google Books, but the citation has not yet
> been verified with hardcopy or full scans. "The Encyclopedia of
> Science Fiction" indicates that the publication failed and only two
> issues were published in February and May 1954. So the year is solid.
> An unrelated "Science Fiction Digest" was published in the 1930s.
>
> Garson O’Toole
>
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