[Ads-l] Antedating of "Old School" (Music)

Sun Apr 21 06:55:53 UTC 2024

Correction: The band name is Freddie Fisher and his Schnickel-fritzers

Here is a 1937 match for the adjectival form of "old-school" applied
to the music genre jazz. I do not know if OED would place this under
sense 1b or 2; This citation apparently antedates both.

Date: November 17, 1937
Periodical: Variety
Periodical Location: Los Angeles, California
Article: Music-Dance Tours: Disc Reviews
Author: Abel Green
Quote Page 54, Column 1
Database: ProQuest

[Begin excerpt]
Freddie Fisher and his Schnickel-fritzers on Decca 1501 give out 'Baby
Smiles at Me' and 'Nobody's Got the Blues But Me' in the corny-hot
manner which first brought this Twin Cities hinterland band to
attention, principally via the Decca disks, into a Warner Bros.
$25.000 contract. It's really old-school jazz, but commercial, and for
those who want to be a bit ahead of the parade in ‘discovering’ some
new novelty on the  wax, this is a good sample.

[End excerpt]

Garson

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 2:48 AM ADSGarson O'Toole
<adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Nice work, Fred, Ben, and Peter.
> Here is a 1937 match for the adjectival form of "old-school" applied
> to the music genre jazz. I do not know if OED would place this under
> sense 1b or 2; This citation apparently antedates both.
>
> Date: November 17, 1937
> Periodical: Variety
> Periodical Location: Los Angeles, California
> Article: Music-Dance Tours: Disc Reviews
> Author: Abel Green
> Quote Page 54, Column 1
> Database: ProQuest
>
> [Begin excerpt]
> Freddie fritzers and his Schnickel-fritzers on Decca 1501 give out
> 'Baby Smiles at Me' and 'Nobody's Got the Blues But Me' in the
> corny-hot manner which first brought this Twin Cities hinterland band
> to attention, principally via the Decca disks, into a Warner Bros.
> $25.000 contract. It's really old-school jazz, but commercial, and for
> those who want to be a bit ahead of the parade in 'discovering' some
> new novelty on the  wax, this is a good sample.
> [End excerpt]
>
> Garson
>
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 1:49 AM Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Fred was posting about the adjectival use of "old school," but these are
> > good antedatings for OED's n.2 (the musical sense, esp. for hip-hop), as
> > the cites for that only start at 1987.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 11:19 PM mr_peter_morris at outlook.com <
> > mr_peter_morris at outlook.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Billboard, June 5 1982
> > >
> > > "as for black music stations ... they're not as impressed with track
> > > records  as programmers from the old school"
> > >
> > >
> > > https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=UyQEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT21&dq=%22old+school+%22+R%26B&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7iMviqtKFAxVtXEEAHb_yDg4QuwV6BAgMEAY#v=onepage&q=%22old%20school%20%22%20R%26B&f=false
> > >
> > > =======================
> > >
> > > Spin, May 1986
> > >
> > > "Symptomatic of the old school's failure to meet the challenge of ..."
> > >
> > >
> > > https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ELfnhp4T-T4C&pg=PA41&dq=%22old+school%27s+failure+to+meet%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwibqIPxqNKFAxU1VUEAHSUwByMQ6AF6BAgHEAI#v=onepage&q=%22old%20school's%20failure%20to%20meet%22&f=false
> > >
> > > ===================
> > > Spin, Aug 1986
> > >
> > > "I can't wait sounds like the old school"
> > >
> > >
> > > https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6_7o2bblz_cC&pg=PA40&dq=%22hip+hop%22+%22old+school%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiq8oe9qNKFAxVTR0EAHSIODtkQ6AF6BAgIEAI#v=onepage&q=%22hip%20hop%22%20%22old%20school%22&f=false
> > >
> > > ------ Original Message ------
> > > From "Ben Zimmer" <bgzimmer at GMAIL.COM>
> > > To ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > > Date 20/04/2024 18:02:37
> > > Subject Re: Antedating of "Old School" (Music)
> > >
> > > >Good find, Fred. I wonder if this deserves at least a bracketed cite:
> > > >
> > > >---
> > > >_Tan_, Mar. 1955, p. 17, col. 1, "On the Records" by James Goodrich
> > > >Roy Hamilton, a big-voiced ex-choir singer with training in the classics,
> > > >is now setting on recordings a new pattern for rhythm and blues vocalists
> > > >which amounts to something quite radical for the field. Crooning blues in
> > > >the polished and sedate style of a concert artist, he appears as a direct
> > > >opposite of old-school r&b singers who depend on raucous, off-color
> > > >presentations to make their way.
> > > >https://archive.org/details/sim_tan_1955-03_5_5/page/16/mode/2up
> > > >---
> > > >
> > > >Perhaps this would better fit OED's adj. 1b ("Reflecting, exhibiting, or
> > > >adhering to traditional values or old-fashioned ways; outdated, no longer
> > > >in vogue," with cites from 1946) rather than adj. 2 ("Of, designating, or
> > > >relating a style or genre of music regarded as relatively traditional,
> > > >old-fashioned, or uninfluenced by newer styles"). After all, the writer is
> > > >talking about "old-school (r&b singers)" rather than "(old-school r&b)
> > > >singers."
> > > >
> > > >--Ben
> > > >
> > > >On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 11:45 AM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
> > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>  old school (OED, adj. 2., 1988)
> > > >>
> > > >>  1986 _Spin_ 1 Oct. 42 (ProQuest)
> > > >>
> > > >>  The reincarnation of Grace Jones, religious or mystical pop,
> > > altruistic,
> > > >>  collaborative superjam projects, the Monkees, and old-school hip-hop
> > > funk.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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