[Ads-l] Quote: There are no atheists in foxholes

Sat Feb 24 01:54:53 UTC 2024

Great citations, Bonnie. I will update the QI article soon.
Garson

On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 7:28 PM Bonnie Taylor-Blake
<b.taylorblake at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm just following up on Garson's 2016 message introducing his
> comprehensive entry on "there are no atheists in foxholes" (
> http://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/11/02/foxhole/).
>
> There (and below) he presents a November 1914 appearance of "there are no
> atheists in the trenches." (Note that it contains the line "Tell the
> Territorials and soldiers at home that they must know God before they come
> to the front.")
>
> At the moment, it looks like the formulation "no atheists at the front" may
> have appeared (only) slightly earlier than "no atheists in the trenches."
> See examples below. "No atheists at the front" didn't have the staying
> power of "no atheists in the trenches," however.
>
> It's hard to know what the original letter from a chaplain (or "letter from
> a soldier in the trenches to a chaplain") contained, but the so-far
> earliest references to it use "no atheists at the front." Of course, it's
> entirely possible that "no atheists in the trenches" may predate that, but
> we haven't yet found evidence of it.
>
> BTW, Barry Popik (cc'd here) has pointed out that "there are no atheists in
> hell" is 19th-century (
> https://barrypopik.com/new_york_city/entry/there_are_no_atheists_in_foxholes).
> You can find 17th-century examples of this aphorism on Google Books, but
> I've located one in epigrammatic form from 1619 that's not in that
> collection.
>
> -- Bonnie
>
> ---------------------------
>
> [begin quote]
> Extracts from a letter of a chaplain at the front were read on Monday by
> the Lord Bishop of Liverpool at a meeting of the Mother's Union at the
> Philharmonic Hall.
>
> [...]
>
> "Do tell the Territorials and soldiers at home that they must know God
> before they come out, if they would adequately face what lies before them.
> They will need all the religion they have got, or can have ... There are no
> atheists at the front, and men are not ashamed to say that though they have
> not prayed before, they are praying now."
> [end quote]
>
> In "Notes by the Way," The Ormskirk (Lancashire) Advertiser, 22 October
> 1914, p. 4.
> https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-ormskirk-advertiser-etc-no-atheis/141945706/
> .
>
> A slightly modified form (along with a different description of the letter)
> appeared just four days later.
>
> [begin quote]
> The Bishop read extracts from a letter from a soldier in the trenches to a
> chaplain, in which he said "There are no atheists or unbelievers at the
> front now. Tell the Territorials at home that they must know God before
> they come out."
> [end quote]
>
> In "Local War Notes; The Bishop in the Pulpit," The (Gloucestershire) Echo,
> 26 October 1914, p. 3. Via Britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk.
>
> But we're back to "no atheists at the front" just a few days later in The
> Bristol Times and Mirror,
> https://www.newspapers.com/article/evening-post-no-atheists-at-the-front/141945935/
> .
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 10:46 AM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Back in September 2006 Bonnie Taylor-Blake posted a great message to
> > this mailing list about the expression in the subject line and about
> > an earlier saying "There are no atheists in the trenches".
> >
> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2006-September/063012.html
> >
> > I've located an earlier citation for the "trenches" adage in "The
> > Western Times" newspaper of Devon, England in November 1914. A speaker
> > at a memorial service for a fallen soldier held at St. Matthias'
> > Church, Ilsham read from the letter of an unnamed chaplain serving at
> > the front.
> >
> > [ref] 1914 November 6, The Western Times, Col. Burn's Late Son:
> > Torquay's Expression of Sincere Sympathy, Quote Page 8, Column 3,
> > Devon, England. (British Newspaper Archive)[/ref]
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > The writer further said, "Tell the Territorials and soldiers at home
> > that they must know God before they come to the front if they would
> > face what lies before them. We have no atheists in the trenches. Men
> > are not ashamed to say that, though they never prayed before, they
> > pray now with all their hearts."
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > Bonnie also pointed to an interesting precursor attributed to "Henry
> > More". Apparently, the actual author was the playwright and religious
> > writer Hannah More, and I've located a relevant citation for her:
> >
> > [ref] 1815, An Essay on the Character and Practical Writings of Saint
> > Paul by Hannah More, Volume 2 of 2, Fourth Edition, Chapter 19, Quote
> > Page 232, Printed for T. Cadell and W. Davies, London. (Google Books
> > Full View) link [/ref]
> >
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=35wUAAAAQAAJ&q=agony#v=snippet&
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > Under circumstances of distress, indeed, prayer is adopted with
> > comparatively little reluctance; the mind, which knows not where to
> > fly, flies to God. In agony, nature is no Atheist.
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > A research summary is available on the QI website here:
> > http://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/11/02/foxhole/
> >
> > [Begin acknowledgement]
> > Special thanks to Bonnie Taylor-Blake who uncovered the version of the
> > adage that referred to trenches instead of foxholes. She also found
> > pertinent instances of the precursor quotations ascribed to Michel de
> > Montaigne and Hannah More. Additional thanks to Charles Doyle et al
> > for the research on this topic in "The Dictionary of Modern Proverbs"
> > and to Barry Popik for the research available on his website.
> > [End acknowledgement]
> >
> > Garson
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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