[Ads-l] Does "The buck stops here'' stop here?

Fri Jun 14 18:03:56 UTC 2024

Interestingly enough, OED's primary ex. of "buck," dollar, is likewise from
California in 1856.

JL

On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 1:34 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Since OED has the poker sense of "buck" from 1865, the basic question is
> how "buck" came to be used in that way.  A "buck knife" is the obvious
> possibility, but I don't see any early exx. of it shortened to "buck."
>
> Early OED evidence specifies the "buck" as any small object, often a knife
> or a pencil.
>
> Antedating OED:
>
> 1856 _Weekly Bulletin_ [S.F.] (Oct. 27) 4 (GenealogyBank): This amusing
> operation is conducted with all the apparent earnestness attention [sic]
> that ever as many old "brag" players bestowed on a game for "five dollars
> ante and pass the buck."
>
> So the phrase was apparently known somewhat earlier than 1857.
>
>  JL
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 12:00 PM Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Nice work, all!  Is there any confirmation (or disconfirmation) from any
>> of these sources that the origin of the reference to a buck in both “the
>> buck stops here” and “passing the buck” is to a buck-handled knife
>> (evidently distinct from the Buck knives named for the early 20th c.
>> blacksmith/knife-maker Hoyt Buck) that traditionally rotated around the
>> poker table to indicate whose turn it was to deal? Or is that an
>> etymythology? The rotating buck-knife is the story I’ve always heard, but
>> there’s no mention of, or even speculation about, this story in the
>> citations.
>>
>> FWIW, Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_passing) uses the
>> noncommittal evidential expression “is said to have” to describe the origin
>> story:
>> ============
>> The expression is said to have originated from poker <
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker> in which a marker or counter (such
>> as a knife with a buckhorn handle during the American Frontier <
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Frontier> era) was used to
>> indicate the person whose turn it was to deal <
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker_dealer>. If the player did not wish
>> to deal, the responsibility could be passed by the passing of the "buck <
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button_(poker)>," as the counter came to
>> be called, to the next player
>> ============
>>
>> LH
>>
>> > On Jun 8, 2024, at 7:47 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > The cerebral hard drive must be slipping.
>> >
>> > JL
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jun 8, 2024 at 6:07 AM ADSGarson O'Toole <
>> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thanks JL and Fred. Congratulations to Barry Popik on his excellent
>> >> discovery.
>> >>
>> >> Barry clipped the citation on September 16, 2019.
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://www.newspapers.com/article/lincoln-journal-star-the-buck-stops-her/36017495/
>> >>
>> >> As mentioned by Fred, the citation appears in "The New Yale Book of
>> >> Quotations" (2021).
>> >>
>> >> In addition, JL mentioned the citation previously on January 16, 2023.
>> >>
>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2023-January/163089.html
>> >>
>> >> The Quote Investigator article has been updated, at last. Changes
>> >> should be visible within  24 hours. Barry Popik, Jonathan Lighter, and
>> >> Fred Shapiro are acknowledged.
>> >> https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/02/07/buck-stops/
>> >>
>> >> Garson
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 1:56 PM Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> The 1929 citation is included in the New Yale Book of Quotations,
>> which
>> >> credits Barry Popik for discovering it.
>> >>>
>> >>> Fred Shapiro
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ________________________________
>> >>> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of
>> >> Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> >>> Sent: Friday, June 7, 2024 1:43 PM
>> >>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >>> Subject: Does "The buck stops here'' stop here?
>> >>>
>> >>> Twenty years ago on another thread I wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> "I'm sticking to my story that I saw a reference to 'The Buck Stops
>> Here'
>> >>> on a little desk plaque in a story published during the '30s in _Our
>> >> Army_
>> >>> magazine."
>> >>>
>> >>> While not quite vindication, the following makes my statement
>> nugatory:
>> >>>
>> >>> 1929  _Lincoln [Neb.] Evening Journal_  (Oct. 2)  13 (Newspapers.com):
>> >> It's
>> >>> about the second lieutenant in the war department whose desk was back
>> in
>> >>> the corner among the boxes and the barrels....Above this desk the
>> second
>> >>> looey had placed a card which read: "The buck stops here"...and he
>> didn't
>> >>> mean buck private.
>> >>>
>> >>> JL
>> >>> --
>> >>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> >> truth."
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> The American Dialect Society -
>> >> http://www.americandialect.org/
>> >> <http://www.americandialect.org/>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org/
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org/
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> truth."
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>

-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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