[Ads-l] Juke Joint (1937), Jook (1930), Jake Joint (1919) and Juice Joint (1911).

[Z S]

"These theories ring untrue to me, if only for the fact that the people
using and naming those joints may not necessarily have seen them as wicked,
disorderly or unsavory."

Regarding the above quote from Reitan, researching and asking the relevant
ethnic group how these places were perceived by them and their ancestors
would offer the greatest insight into whether they perceived such places as
wicked, disorderly or unsavory.

In a recording of "Uncle Bud", Zora Neale Hurston makes it clear that a *jook
woman* is indeed perceived as a woman of ill repute and is not considered
"respectable".

Halpert: "is it sung for the respectable ladies?"
Hurston: "Never! It's one of those jook songs! And the woman that they
singing Uncle Bud in front of is a* jook woman*!"
Source:  "Uncle Bud" by Zora Neale Hurston, via Library of Congress
https://www.loc.gov/item/flwpa000012/

Moreover, I can state outright that a place in which bawdy songs are
traded, cards are played, drinks are served, and folks engage in gambling
and the secular - at that time - would indeed be perceived as a place of
ill repute (if not outright forbidden) by many or most great-grands (and
even grands) among Native Black Americans.

Zola S.

On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 2:27 AM Peter Reitan <pjreitan at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Fred Shapiro's post on "juke box" prompted me to look at "juke joint."
> Etymonline suggests that "juke" in "jukebox" and "juke joint" may be from
> Gullah (joog - wicked, disorderly), and ultimately from Wolof or Bambara
> (dzug - unsavory).  These theories ring untrue to me, if only for the fact
> that the people using and naming those joints may not necessarily have seen
> them as wicked, disorderly or unsavory. Certainly the people busting those
> places on occasion may have seen them that way, but would not likely, in
> most cases, have been people familiar with that language or dialect.  It
> seems to be an open question, in any case.
>
> It is interesting, however, that "jake joint" and "juice joint," with
> nearly identical meaning of "juke joint," preceded "juke joint" in print -
> and "juke" sounds like a combination of juice and jake - "ju-" and "-ke" or
> "juke."
>
> A "jake joint" was a place that sold, specifically, a drink made from
> Jamaican ginger.  In some places, during early prohibition, the Jamaican
> ginger drinks  were apparently technically not illegal, so it was an easy
> way around the law.  During 1930, there were a spate of deaths and cases of
> paralysis affecting people drinking Jamaican ginger at Jake joints, which
> put the expression in many newspapers.
>
> "Juice joint" was an expression with the separate meaning of a soft drink
> shop, or frequently a lemonade stand at a carnival, circus of fair - but
> was also used euphemistically, for places selling illegal alcohol, or
> selling alcohol under the cover of an innocent storefront.
>
> Most of the early examples of "juke" or "jook", and later "juke joint" or
> "jook joint," all came out of Florida, suggesting that may have been coined
> or popularized there.
>
>
> "Jake Joint" - 1919
>
> [Begin Excerpt]Startling evidence featured in prosecution of a drug store
> as an alleged "jake joint" in the injunction case against the Oliver drug
> store . . . reputation of being a "jake joint." . . . "Jamaica ginger
> boxes" . . . "drinking jake."[End Excerpt]
> Tulsa Tribune, August 12, 1919, page 2. Newspapers.com
>
> An article about life in Harlem, published in the Baltimore Afro-American
> in 1930, refers to barrooms there alternatively as "gin mills" or "juice
> joints."  The article suggests the alternate words are used by different
> strata of society, but it is not clear which stratum used which term.
>
> [Begin Excerpt] Greeks Run Fish Joints, Italians Juice Joints and Every
> Block Boasts a Beauty Shop. . . .  One sees old ladies, young ladies, white
> ladies, black ladies, brown ladies, crippled ladies, in fact, ladies of all
> sorts, hanging around in the rear of these "gin mills" as they [(barrooms)]
> are affectionately known.  To the gentry of another strata, they are "juice
> joints."[End Excerpt]
> The Afro-American, Baltimore, Maryland, January 11, 1930, page 11.
> Newspapers.com
>
>
> "Jook" - 1930
> [Begin Excerpt]Jook! That New One on Docket.  County Officials Look Up
> Word, Which denotes Negro Dance Hall, in Vain.  Enter the jook - spelling
> somewhat in doubt.  A jook, according to J. B. Rowland, investigator for
> the state attorney's office, who visits such places looking for murderers,
> is a combination negro dance hall, gambling house and speakeasy . . . .  In
> writing up a report, Mrs. Opal Given, secretary to N. Vernon Hawthorne,
> state attorney, is inclined to spell the word zook or zukke.  She has in
> mind a negro called Zukker, who recently was arrested for having a
> scrap.[End Excerpt]
> The Miami News, November 15, 1930, page 2. Newspapers.com
>
> "Juke Joint" - 1936.
> [Begin Excerpt]Many of those taken in the waterfront cleanup were bailed
> out in time to be nabbed a second time at the "juke joints."[End Excerpt]
> Pensacola News Journal, May 3, 1936, page 1. Newspapers.com
>
> The expression appears frequently in Florida in 1937, when there were
> legislative attempts to ban "juke joints" (or "jook joints).
>
> A long article published in Fort Myers in 1937 attempts to explain the
> word for people not in-the-know.  The apparently local, white reporter,
> refers to it as a country word, used in the Fort Myers region, and unknown
> to a reporter from Miami who came to town to report on the juke joints.  He
> explains that "juking" is the term equivalent to the city word, "night
> clubbing."  He gives a history, saying that the original ones had been
> Black establishments, but that after the end of national Prohibition,
> similar places started popping up on main roads with more customer traffic,
> and more of them for white clientele.  The new places adopted the old term,
> which had been known regionally, as a natural fit.
>
> He gives what he believes to be the etymology of the word, from "junket" -
> referring to going out on excursions to various roadhouses - "juking."  No
> evidence is given.
>
> That article can be found here.
> https://www.newspapers.com/article/news-press-juke-joints/24659505/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org