[Ads-l] When You Are Up To Your Ass in Alligators

[ADSGarson O'Toole]

Thanks for your feedback, JL.

The QI article mentions your excellent entry in the Random House
Historical Dictionary of American Slang for: up to one’s ass [or ears]
in alligators

I included your 1877 citation for a non-metaphorical instance of "up
to your neck in alligators". I also included a 1944 instance of the
joke about alligator eggs with the punchline "up to your neck in
alligators".

The QI article also has a 1957 citation for the figurative use of the
phrase "up to his ears in alligators". Thanks for finding a 1956
instance of the figurative use.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2025/04/16/alligator-drain/

Garson

On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 4:33 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  The joke about being "up to your neck in alligators" if the male gator
> didn't eat most of the eggs dates back to at least 1944. Hence,
>
> 1956_Wichita Falls [Tex.] Record News_ (Nov. 3) 1: You know you are, as the
> wags say, "up to your neck in alligators."
>
> 1958 Shepherd Mead _The Admen_ (N.Y.: Simon & Schuster) 261:  "Crisis?" "Up
> to my neck in alligators."
>
> 1964 _Times_ (San Mateo, Calif.) (Sept. 18) 13: Up to your neck in
> alligators? Add a room!
>
> When I first heard the phrase (in the mid '70s), it was in a proverbial
> form: "When you're up to your ass in alligators, you don't think about
> draining the swamp."
>
> JL
>
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 3:21 PM ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for your testimony, James. I will add it to my electronic file
> > about this topic.
> >
> > The QI article contains a May 24, 1970 citation in "The Salina
> > Journal" of Kansas which does mention that the saying appeared on a
> > sign although the sign may have been homemade. The article was about
> > Lance Burr who was the head of Consumer Protection Division in Kansas:
> >
> > [ref] 1970 May 24, The Salina Journal, Let seller beware, Lance Burr
> > believes, Start Page 1, Quote Page 2, Column 3, Salina, Kansas.
> > (Newspapers_com) [/ref]
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > He follows the advice of a wry statement taped to a wall in his office
> > – "When you are up to your ears in alligators, it is difficult to
> > remind yourself that your initial objective was to drain the swamp."
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > I did not see any advertisements for pertinent commercial signs in
> > 1969 or earlier. The internet archive and the google books database do
> > contain trade journals which would be a natural place for such
> > advertisements. Of course, the earliest published evidence often
> > appears after a saying enters circulation especially when the saying
> > contains a word deemed vulgar such as "ass". Perhaps future
> > researchers will find earlier published evidence. Maybe the initial
> > phrasing was substantially different.
> >
> > Garson
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 2:40 PM James Landau
> > <00000c13e57d49b8-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > When I reported to work in the Pentagon in November 1969, I found that
> > motto posted on numerous walls and bulletin boards.  If I remember
> > correctly, some of the motto began with a text that I do not remember
> > verbatim but which ran something like "Our mission is to produce quality
> > product on time without errors..."
> > > Also, if I remember correctly, as far back as 1969 that motto was
> > available on commercially printed signs, which means it was widely known by
> > November 1969
> > > James Landau
> > > jjjrlandau at netscape.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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