[Ads-l] Antedating of "run it up the flagpole" (1956)

Sat Aug 2 22:45:57 UTC 2025

Thanks for checking, Dave.
I will say, fwiw, that, unless I missed something (possible), google books advanced search did not return any early (1954 or earlier) exact hits for phrases
"run/ran it up the flagpole."

Stephen
________________________________
From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of dave at wilton.net <dave at WILTON.NET>
Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2025 5:37 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Antedating of "run it up the flagpole" (1956)

I got a copy of the 1955 stage play "Twelve Angry Men," and "run it up the flagpole" does not appear in it. It's an adaptation of Reginald Rose's 1954 teleplay by Sherman L. Sergel, so it looks like Rose added the line in the 1957 film script.

So the OED is either in error, or they have a 1955 draft of the film script.

-----Original Message-----
From: "dave at wilton.net" <dave at WILTON.NET>
Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2025 6:53am
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Antedating of "run it up the flagpole" (1956)

There are many earlier examples of the phrase being used literally. Stephen's find is interesting in that while literal, it hints the figurative phrase was in existence.

The phrase does not appear in the 1954 teleplay of "12 Angry Men." That has a running time of less than an hour, with commercials, and is severely truncated compared to either the play or the film. A remastered video of the television presentation is available on the web (with the the original Westinghouse commercials). It's good, but not nearly as good as Lumet's 1957 film. [ https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHlaXebUi72A&data=05%7C02%7Cgoranson%40DUKE.EDU%7C9b947856f0874408594a08ddd20cdc09%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638897674891072618%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zOvTgc0aHUKCTeDODRlWE4JVhsujZLr7KHhuaNSFQno%3D&reserved=0<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlaXebUi72A> ]( https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHlaXebUi72A&data=05%7C02%7Cgoranson%40DUKE.EDU%7C9b947856f0874408594a08ddd20cdc09%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638897674891093729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=39wcEX0U10vnICZl5QQRDsJwc8uAePD8o1j14spewxY%3D&reserved=0<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlaXebUi72A> )

I've found various versions of the script on the web, but they all seem to be of the 1957 film. Most lack any bibliographic information. I found a searchable no-preview version of what purports to be the 1955 play on Google Books, but searches did not turn up "flagpole" or any other word in the relevant passage. That's not dispositive though.

I will be getting my hands on an edition of the 1955 stage play later today. Either that or the quote Garson found look to be the earliest in print.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Stephen Goranson" <0000179d4093b2d6-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Friday, August 1, 2025 6:06pm
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Antedating of "run it up the flagpole" (1956)

Far be it for me to say if it is relevant here, though hear tell in Chapel Hill "Vandals" took Miss Scott's big pink horse outside her antique doll shop, added paint, "and ran it up the flagpole" in the center of the UNC campus.

Durham Sun, May 6, 1955, 8-C/1-2, [Am. Hist. News.]

sg

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From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of ADSGarson O'Toole <00001aa1be50b751-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Friday, August 1, 2025 5:43 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Antedating of "run it up the flagpole" (1956)

Intriguing topic, Dave and Jesse. Here is a match in November 1955.

Date: November 11, 1955
Newspaper: The Williamsburg News
Newspaper Location: Brooklyn, New York
Article: MANHATTAN Days and Nights
Author: Guyon Madison
Quote Page 6, Column 3
Database: Newspapers.com

https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newspapers.com%2Farticle%2Fthe-williamsburg-news-flagpole%2F177961553%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cgoranson%40DUKE.EDU%7C9b947856f0874408594a08ddd20cdc09%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638897674891103969%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3F0sSE2nSQWX0krvV0%2FzUdoclx6rQ7gmLr9SUcl2s%2FA%3D&reserved=0<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newspapers.com%2Farticle%2Fthe-williamsburg-news-flagpole%2F177961553%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cgoranson%40DUKE.EDU%7C9b947856f0874408594a08ddd20cdc09%7Ccb72c54e4a314d9eb14a1ea36dfac94c%7C0%7C0%7C638897674891114355%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=w2zv9FZGsAgYCAwIuD9JkcWjbCc%2BtHRGoqLBgrW1qaU%3D&reserved=0><https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-williamsburg-news-flagpole/177961553/>

[Begin excerpt]
MADISONIANIA-From time to time John Crosby, vigorous chronicler of the
radio and television world, has reported on the unique ionospheric
imaginery (sic?) that has become a familiar Madison Avenue by-product
of creative minds in conference. Quite independently, Guyon Madison
picked up this one: "Let's run it up the flagpole and see how many
people salute it."
[End excerpt]

Wikipedia indicates that "Twelve Angry Men" began as a teleplay in
1954 written by Reginald Rose. It was rewritten for the stage in 1955,
and it became a feature film in 1957. The Wikipedia article links to a
PDF which is labeled "teleplay". This PDF might be the 1954 teleplay.
I searched within the PDF and did not find the target phrase.

I guess the OED editors accessed a script of the 1955 stage version of
this work and found the target phrase. But I do not know what month
the 1955 stage version appeared.

The internet archive has a version of "Twelve Angry Men" in "Great
Television Plays" (1969). The phrase appears on page 204. But the
copyright date at the beginning of this version of "Twelve Angry Men"
is 1956.

[Begin excerpt]
Oh, some account exec'll say, "Here's an idea. Let's run it up the
flagpole and see if anyone salutes it."
[End excerpt]

Garson

On Fri, Aug 1, 2025 at 10:11 AM Jesse Sheidlower <jester at panix.com> wrote:
>
> This is in fact in OED, s.v. _run_ v. Phrases P.3.l., with a first quotation from _12 Angry Men_ in 1955.
>
> "Originally U.S. Advertising slang. to run (an idea, suggestion, etc.) up the flagpole: to try out or subject to general scrutiny, with a view to ascertaining its reception or likely success. Frequently more fully as to run (it, etc.) up the flagpole and see who salutes it (and variants)."
>
> Jesse Sheidlower
>
> On Fri, Aug 01, 2025 at 09:54:41AM -0400, dave at wilton.net wrote:
> >
> > Not in OED; GDoS has 1957.
> >
> > Kaselow, Joseph. “Advertising Field: Guards Up, Men.” New York Herald Tribune, 12 November 1956, A5/1. ProQuest Historical Newspapers.
> >
> > "The [newspaper feature] writer said he would get back to the p. r. man and in a short while he did. And here, so help me, is what he said: 'I took it in to one of the editors and ran it up the flagpole, but nobody saluted; so I guess it’s dead.'"
> >
> > Kaselow, Joseph. “Advertising Field: Sound and Fury.” New York Herald Tribune, 15 November 1956, A7/5. ProQuest Historical Newspapers.
> >
> > "The other day we had an item about a newspaper feature writer who turned down a story by saying he’s taken to the editors and run it up the flagpole, but nobody saluted. We played it up as a case of the creeping influence of Madison Ave. on the native—and what’s worse, the editorial tongu[e]."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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