[Ads-l] Origin of "Dixey Land" (1844); Still no response from N.O. mayor on "Big Easy" and "Big Apple"

[Jonathan Lighter]

The well-publicized theory that Emmett learned/stole the song from black
neighbors in Ohio is entirely speculative, and I for one do not believe it.

The argument is mainly constructed of "maybe," "could have been," and
"would not have been impossible."

The people involved were obviously real, but IMHO the theory is a classic
example of academic wishful thinking. It would be most ironic if true,
which suggests to some that it probably is.

JL

On Thu, Jun 19, 2025 at 1:05 PM dave at wilton.net <dave at wilton.net> wrote:

>
> "Of remaining questions, the most significant is why Emmett evidently
> adopted the name of the game as a name for the American South."
>
> It may be that the two are not related, the NYC game coming from a
> (perhaps mythical) local landowner named Dixie or Dixy and the South usage
> from the Mason-Dixon line.
>
> Or, and I think more likely, they both separately derive from the
> Mason-Dixon line. The Southern connection is obvious, and the children's
> game is one of boundary crossing.
>
> There's also a question as to whether or not Emmett composed the song. He
> certainly made it famous and claimed it for his own, but there are other
> credible claims, notably by Black performers.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Jonathan Lighter" <00001aad181a2549-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2025 11:38am
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Origin of "Dixey Land" (1844); Still no response from
> N.O. mayor on "Big Easy" and "Big Apple"
>
>
>
> Another mention of the game "Dixey's Land" in NYC:
>
> 1860 _N. Y. Times_ (Aug. 15) 5: Romps and games of all kinds were indulged
> in [by children in Central Park] in after lunch. Tag, ball, marbles, blind
> man's buff, hunt the slipper, Dixey's-land, I spy the Wolf and Where now
> are the Hebrew children, enabled the children of larger and smaller growth
> to spend the time agreeably and pleasantly until 6 o'clock, when joyfully
> and happily they went home.
>
> The pre-"Dixie's Land" existence of the "Dixey's land" game has long been
> proven, not least by Barry Popik. Of remaining questions, the most
> significant is why Emmett evidently adopted the name of the game as a name
> for the American South.
>
>  As for "I spy the Wolf":
>
> 1859 _Brooklyn Evening Star_ (Nov. 11) 3 [Newspapers.com]: MIRACULOUS
> ESCAPE. Last Saturday afternoon, about half-past five o'clock, while some
> boys were playing "I spy the Wolf" at Lakeland Station, L.I., one of them
> took to the well for a hiding place, when his hands slipped and he fell to
> the bottom, a distance of 66 feet. He was...aged about fifteen years....Mr.
> John Cole rescued him from his perilous position.
>
> A detailed (and lushly romantic) explanation of the rules appeared in _The
> Western Rural_ (Chicago), Oct. 14, 1869, p. 6 [Newpspapers.com]. The game
> was a very elaborate variation of hide-and-seek.
>
> According to the _Jersey City News_ (Dec. 29, 1902) 5 [GenealogyBank],
> "every youngster has played" snap-the-whip and I-spy-the-wolf.
>
>
> JL
>
> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 12:39 PM Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Groundbreaking indeed (speaking as one who posted some other ditional
> > material here a few years back.)
> >
> > I found no exx. of "Dix note" either. Obviously someone's wild guess.
> >
> > It may be that Emmett heard the game term for the first time in some
> > ambiguous context and misunderstood it as an idiom for the South. Nothing
> > implausible about that, especially in the light of current evidence.
> >
> > But why "Dixey," in any case?
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 12:45 AM, Barry Popik <bapopik at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Good point! Thanks! I thought the construction of the sentence was worth
> >> noting.
> >> ...
> >> Barry Popik (whose long-suffering wife deserves better this Mother's
> Day)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Christopher Philippo <toff at mac.com>
> >> To: Barry Popik <bapopik at aol.com>
> >> Sent: Sat, May 13, 2017 12:40 am
> >> Subject: Re: Origin of "Dixey Land" (1844); Still no response from N.O.
> >> mayor on "Big Easy" and "Big Apple"
> >>
> >> On May 12, 2017, at 10:28 PM, Barry Popik <bapopik at aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Google Books
> >> <
> https://books.google.com/books?id=ayhEAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA45&dq=%22dixey+land%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjGt-uU3uvTAhWHOSYKHX4NDZQQ6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=%22dixey%20land%22&f=false
> >
> >> 1855, *The Opal* (Asylum, Utica, NY), Vol. 5, No. 2, pg. 45:
> >> PARLOR SCENE, No. 3
> >> (...)
> >> *Miss C.* — " Those who go to Dixey's land must be Dixey's men."
> >> *Miss J.* — " But when Dixey comes to our land, Dixey's not at home. Ah!
> >> Home — here woman reigns as mother, daughter, wife, and to her kings
> submit.
> >>
> >>
> >> The above sounds pretty similar to the game:
> >>
> >> I am on Dixie’s land, and Dixie isn't home.
> >>
> >>
> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2007-November/075982.html
> >>
> >> The king of Dixie's Land endeavors to seize an invader, whom he must
> hold
> >> long enough to repeat the words,
> >>
> >> Ten times one are ten,
> >> You are one of my men.
> >>
> >> Newell, William Wells. Games and Songs of American Children. NY: Harper
> &
> >> Brothers, 1883. 222.
> >> https://books.google.com/books?id=eWnD-k71W2MC&pg=PA222
> >>
> >> See also http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/site/comments/dixie/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>


-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org